i would venture to say that a larger percentage of cigars are dyed than we would like to admit.
in the Restaurant business we have a saying that states " you eat with your eyes first." if your food looks like crap you will enjoy it less. as much as everyone always says "i smoke for the taste" the same goes for cigars. if the average cigar smoker picks up a cigar and it looks like crap, they are going to judge the cigar by that first. this is where they dyeing comes in.
when tobacco ferments and goes through the maduro process, it creates a darker leaf. but this darker leaf is not always even in hue. rather than waste the most expensive leaf on the cigar (both in time and in money) many companies will take what is basically the scrap tobacco and make a dye from it. most of the time it isnt even a "thick" or "dark" dye. its just something to even out the leaf.
that being said, if a cigar is dyed to get all of the color, that is a problem. most people will be able to taste the difference. i doubt that any company does that.
also in reference to a post above that stated they saw a video where they were dying cigars at RP... when i was in the oliva factory we were walking through the rolling room and there was a bowl of dark liquid on the table of one of the people maduros. the rollers hands were in and out of that bowl and the entire leaf was wet from that liquid. we asked about it. the answer was that the water started out clear at the beginning of the day. but after about 10 minutes of almost constant contact with tobacco and tobacco dust it turns dark. otherwise it is just water wetting the leaf making it easier to apply to the bunched and bound cigar.
i would venture to say that a larger percentage of cigars are dyed than we would like to admit.
in the Restaurant business we have a saying that states " you eat with your eyes first." if your food looks like crap you will enjoy it less. as much as everyone always says "i smoke for the taste" the same goes for cigars. if the average cigar smoker picks up a cigar and it looks like crap, they are going to judge the cigar by that first. this is where they dyeing comes in.
when tobacco ferments and goes through the maduro process, it creates a darker leaf. but this darker leaf is not always even in hue. rather than waste the most expensive leaf on the cigar (both in time and in money) many companies will take what is basically the scrap tobacco and make a dye from it. most of the time it isnt even a "thick" or "dark" dye. its just something to even out the leaf.
that being said, if a cigar is dyed to get all of the color, that is a problem. most people will be able to taste the difference. i doubt that any company does that.
also in reference to a post above that stated they saw a video where they were dying cigars at RP... when i was in the oliva factory we were walking through the rolling room and there was a bowl of dark liquid on the table of one of the people maduros. the rollers hands were in and out of that bowl and the entire leaf was wet from that liquid. we asked about it. the answer was that the water started out clear at the beginning of the day. but after about 10 minutes of almost constant contact with tobacco and tobacco dust it turns dark. otherwise it is just water wetting the leaf making it easier to apply to the bunched and bound cigar.
that must have been what I saw, because they were soaking the leaves in it. I figured it was dye.
Alex SvensonBlogAdministrator, Everyone, ForumsAdministrator, Moderator, Owners, Registered UsersPosts: 1,204
Im jumping on a plane and dont have long so here is a short answer...yes many do this. It is not a dye but they will soak tobacco in water then wipe the natural colored water over wrapper to even color. A true maduro is actually quite ugly. Some people may even steam their wraper to even the color. This is an accetable process so long as the wrapper is fully fermented and it is being done for asthetics. However, some unsavory companies do this to make a not fully fermented maduro look darker and use it as a short cut which is very bad. So it all depends. As for the bleeding, all tobacco bleeds, the daker ones more so than the lighter and sometimes it is not the wrapper, it is tar. Just my quick 2 cents. Some guys in the DR actually use Mineral Oil on the outside of their wrappers to make them look oilier. It isnt harmful per say, but yet another process. In terms of seeing cigars rolled in the factory and assuming it is died, the rollers who roll maduro have to wet the thick maduro wrappers to make them pliable. Often times, this creates serious tobaccco bleed on the hands and looks like die but it is alll natural.
I read an article a few years back that stated that in the 1990s there was a maduro craze and most manufacturers could not keep up so they started dying their leaves. This is what gave a lot of people hte impression that maduro cigars were much stronger than non maduros. I forget where I read this. if I can find the article, I'll pass it along.
I will try to find a post Saka made on this subject on one of the major forums he posts on. It was really informative, and went in depth about the different processes used (both natural, and unnatural) to achieve really dark leaves. Needless to say, it seems Drew Estate does not use any shady methods to get those gorgeous, dark wrappers the 9's and T-52s have.
Alex SvensonBlogAdministrator, Everyone, ForumsAdministrator, Moderator, Owners, Registered UsersPosts: 1,204
rwheelwright:
I read an article a few years back that stated that in the 1990s there was a maduro craze and most manufacturers could not keep up so they started dying their leaves. This is what gave a lot of people hte impression that maduro cigars were much stronger than non maduros. I forget where I read this. if I can find the article, I'll pass it along.
I think you are referring to an article I wrote for the Cigar.com Catalog called the Truth About Maduro. I don't recall the issue however. It is definitely something I have harped on. It was really bad in the 90's, just a bunch of shameless cigar makers.
Alex SvensonBlogAdministrator, Everyone, ForumsAdministrator, Moderator, Owners, Registered UsersPosts: 1,204
laker1963:
Thanks Alex. More informative reading. Have you ever thought of writing a book about your life experiences in the cigar indusrty Alex?
I was working on one but writing a book is a lot harder than writing short little articles. I never realized how hard it is. Maybe Ill get around to finishing it.
Thanks Alex. More informative reading. Have you ever thought of writing a book about your life experiences in the cigar indusrty Alex?
I was working on one but writing a book is a lot harder than writing short little articles. I never realized how hard it is. Maybe Ill get around to finishing it.
You work on the book. I'll take over and run things at Ccom for a while. It would be my pleasure to help YOU out.
Thanks Alex. More informative reading. Have you ever thought of writing a book about your life experiences in the cigar indusrty Alex?
I was working on one but writing a book is a lot harder than writing short little articles. I never realized how hard it is. Maybe Ill get around to finishing it.
That would be awesome. Would thoroughly enjoy reading that. Just from the small tidbits here and there that I have read from you Alex, the knowledge you have to is vast.
Thanks Alex. More informative reading. Have you ever thought of writing a book about your life experiences in the cigar indusrty Alex?
I was working on one but writing a book is a lot harder than writing short little articles. I never realized how hard it is. Maybe Ill get around to finishing it.
That would be awesome. Would thoroughly enjoy reading that. Just from the small tidbits here and there that I have read from you Alex, the knowledge you have to is vast.
This is correct but needs some clarification. All maduro wrapper bleeds to one extent or another. If you visit a factory and see someone rolling a maduro, their hands are almost black. This is because they had to wet the wrapper heavily to make it pliable so they can roll it around a cigar. As a result, it bleeds onto the hands of the roller. In many cases, they wipe down the cigars after rolling to try to prevent in from bleeding onto your lips when smoking. So, if you see some dark stuff on your lips after smoking, that does not mean they painted it. All cigars bleed to some degree.
Why paint? This is a good question and it has a very long answer. Maduro literally means "Ripe" in spanish. After a cigar is picked and cured, it goes into fermentation. Fermentation will last anywhere from 6 months to three years... or even more. Tobacco is fermented in Pilones (large piles of tobacco) and the process is a lot like composting. These piles are wet which initiates a chemical reaction that breaks down the composition of the leaf. The process produces heat as a by product so the workers monitor the heat carefully in each pilone. Once the heat reaches a certain point, the pilones are broken down and the tobacco is rotated from inside to out and top to bottom. The process starts again naturally. Each time the pilone is flipped, it takes a longer duration of time for the temperature to rise until eventually it stops fluctuating at all once the reactions start. At this stage, the tobacco is tested by the blender to see if it is ready. If it is, it goes to aging or immediate use... if not the tobacco is rewet and the process starts again. Each time you run a fermentation cycle, the tobacco darkens as the sugars are extracted along with many of its other tannic properties. The idea is to round out the flavor of the tobacco. The amount you can ferment a leaf is dependent on the thickness. For example, a thin leaf cant take the punishment of 3 years of fermenting and eventually just falls apart. But a thick leaf can ferment for many years. So for a good maduro, a fermentation specialist will need to start with a nice thick and hearty leaf. After three years of fermentation, the wrapper will be very dark and what is called a true maduro.
So now we know that Maduro means "ripe" and that it is actually a process, not a description of color. Maduro just means that it is extra fermented which typically means it will be sweeter as the sugars were extracted over a long period of time. Prior to the boom, "oscuro" was the name we used for dark cigars and maduro just meant longer fermented. So how did this all change and when did painting come into play? This is where it gets interesting. At the start of the boom, people started associating maduro as a color because they usually were darker on account of the extra fermentation. They became very popular and all of the sudden demand for premium cigars more than tripled in one year, especially demand for maduro. So at this point, the cigar public adopted the term maduro to mean dark and it has remained ever since. Now, with demand at an all time high, especially for a true maduro which people liked for its sweetness, factories were struggling to keep up with demand. Especially if you consider that it takes 3 years to naturally ferment a true maduro wrapper and no one saw the huge surge in demand. So what did they do? They took under fermented wrapper or natural wrappers and painted them black and sold them as maduros. Wrapper was not only painted, but it was turned dark through a process called "cooking" where the wrappers are broiled to artificially speed up the coloration process. So now you had thick unfermented leaves or even rich cuban seed leaves that were being processed and sold as maduro. Now this caused a whole separate set of issues. These cigars were spicy, bitter and tannic in taste. This led to people starting to think that dark wrappers (which were now incorrectly being called maduro simply because of their color) are associated with strong and harsh flavors (when the truth is that it should be mellow and sweet). hence why you still to this day hear people say they dont like dark cigars because they are stronger.
The bottom line is that the cigar boom screwed everything up in this industry and its effects are still lasting Fortunately, maduro is returning to what it used to be and cigar makers are able to keep up with demand and do the process naturally. Many maduros are done in the tried and true manner today. Some guys still color but only to even out the appearance of the wrapper, not to cheat the process. You see, real maduro is pretty ugly. In my opinion, it is okay for a maker to touch up his wrappers, but only if the wrapper has been properly fermented and is a true maduro. This is actually very common. It is not okay when it is done to cover up unfermented leaf.
Remember
1. Maduro Means ripe and it is descriptive of a process the tobacco went through, not the color.
2. Many cigar makers will paint or even the color on their authentic maduro wrappers to make them more asthetic. This is not cheating. However, if the wrapper did not go through the "maduro" fermentation process and is colored to darken the entire cigar to decieve customers, this is a big No No.
3. Best way to tell if youve been had is to smoke a cigar inquestion. If it is rough, bitter, tanic and lacks sweetness, you may have a painted or cooked wrapper that is not a true "maduro".
Comments
I was looking for this.
in the Restaurant business we have a saying that states " you eat with your eyes first."
if your food looks like crap you will enjoy it less.
as much as everyone always says "i smoke for the taste" the same goes for cigars.
if the average cigar smoker picks up a cigar and it looks like crap, they are going to judge the cigar by that first.
this is where they dyeing comes in.
when tobacco ferments and goes through the maduro process, it creates a darker leaf. but this darker leaf is not always even in hue. rather than waste the most expensive leaf on the cigar (both in time and in money) many companies will take what is basically the scrap tobacco and make a dye from it. most of the time it isnt even a "thick" or "dark" dye. its just something to even out the leaf.
that being said, if a cigar is dyed to get all of the color, that is a problem. most people will be able to taste the difference. i doubt that any company does that.
also in reference to a post above that stated they saw a video where they were dying cigars at RP...
when i was in the oliva factory we were walking through the rolling room and there was a bowl of dark liquid on the table of one of the people maduros. the rollers hands were in and out of that bowl and the entire leaf was wet from that liquid. we asked about it. the answer was that the water started out clear at the beginning of the day. but after about 10 minutes of almost constant contact with tobacco and tobacco dust it turns dark. otherwise it is just water wetting the leaf making it easier to apply to the bunched and bound cigar.