Voter Supression

Seems to be a trend right now to make people get certain ID's to vote. Is it a tactic being used to stem the vote or to get rid of election fraud? Well considering there is such a small amount if any of it I would lean to saying it's just another tactic. Even Pensylvania came out and said there wasn't any voter fraud problems.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/itsallpolitics/2012/07/25/157327705/pa-wont-use-voter-fraud-argument-at-hearing-over-id-law

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/post/pennsylvania-admits-it-no-voter-fraud-problem/2012/07/24/gJQAHNVt6W_blog.html

http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2012/07/24/pennsylvania-voter-suppression-goes-on-trial-are-the-gop-intentions-pure/

http://rollingout.com/politics/republican-leader-admits-black-voter-suppression-tactics/

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865559565/Fraud-prevention-or-voter-suppression-Voter-ID-battle-heats-up-in-Pennsylvania.html

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Comments

jlmarta

I usually try to stay out of the political discussions here on the forum but here's an interesting tidbit regarding registering in Florida. My child bride and I lived in Florida in the late 50's and early 60's. When we went to register, the lady asked us which party we wanted to be registered in. She then told us that it didn't really matter because, under Florida law at that time, everyone had to register as a Democrat. She said we could vote however we wished but we had to register as Democrats.

I know that sounds like a crock of sh1t but it's the truth. Musta played h3ll with the statistics.....

fla-gypsy

I proudly produced my photo ID when voting Tuesday just like everyone else had to. At least Florida makes you prove who you are to vote.

xmacro

JDH:
It is easier and cheaper to get a US passport than a Pensylvania voter ID card. This is nothing more than a new form of Jim Crow, this time it's just aimed at Democrats of all colors instead of just black ones.

If dems or anyone for that matter, are too dumb to produce a student id, drivers license, or their SS # and two utility bills, they shouldn't be voting anyway. Voting is a privilege, not a right.

catfishbluezz

xmacro:
JDH:
It is easier and cheaper to get a US passport than a Pensylvania voter ID card. This is nothing more than a new form of Jim Crow, this time it's just aimed at Democrats of all colors instead of just black ones.
If dems or anyone for that matter, are too dumb to produce a student id, drivers license, or their SS # and two utility bills, they shouldn't be voting anyway. Voting is a privilege, not a right.

Exactly... To me it is no different then asking someone to register to vote. It's a step in the process of being a responsible citizen, not racism or prejudice in any way. Also...you only have to get an ID once...it's not a law to prevent someone from voting. I see no reason why any party whom might be adversely affected by this would not do everything in their power to offset it the temporary downside. It would quickly become a non issue once people get off their ass and get an ID. Asking an honorable citizen to get an ID ONCE so they can vote is a small price to pay for democracy. You don't like it...GTFO

phobicsquirrel

xmacro:
JDH:
It is easier and cheaper to get a US passport than a Pensylvania voter ID card. This is nothing more than a new form of Jim Crow, this time it's just aimed at Democrats of all colors instead of just black ones.
If dems or anyone for that matter, are too dumb to produce a student id, drivers license, or their SS # and two utility bills, they shouldn't be voting anyway. Voting is a privilege, not a right.

you ever see that film V for Vendetta? I'm sure you'd love to live in a place like England had become. It would be right up your alley.

I cannot believe that some of you are so willing to allow people to be denied to vote. Like it isn't affecting me so I don't care, "oh, it's just an ID". Well that may be so but if this was something that wasn't designed to suppress the vote than why wasn't this brought up years ago, or at least in a timely manner to allow people the chance for one, to know about it and two, to get the time off to do so. Hell, just to get my car's tags at the DMV last week I had to wait over an hour and that's without any crazy hours or massive amounts of people trying to get their ID to vote. Also Portland has a great public transportation system so those that don't have cars can easily get there. There is something sinister here.

catfishbluezz

I'm curious....how many of you do not have an ID? I'm trying to think of anyone I know that doesn't.... I'm also trying to think of how anyone could get a job, car, house, apartment, bank account, or anything for that matter without one...

phobicsquirrel

catfishbluezz:
xmacro:
JDH:
It is easier and cheaper to get a US passport than a Pensylvania voter ID card. This is nothing more than a new form of Jim Crow, this time it's just aimed at Democrats of all colors instead of just black ones.
If dems or anyone for that matter, are too dumb to produce a student id, drivers license, or their SS # and two utility bills, they shouldn't be voting anyway. Voting is a privilege, not a right.
Exactly... To me it is no different then asking someone to register to vote. It's a step in the process of being a responsible citizen, not racism or prejudice in any way. Also...you only have to get an ID once...it's not a law to prevent someone from voting. I see no reason why any party whom might be adversely affected by this would not do everything in their power to offset it the temporary downside. It would quickly become a non issue once people get off their ass and get an ID. Asking an honorable citizen to get an ID ONCE so they can vote is a small price to pay for democracy. You don't like it...GTFO

The main thing isn't so much about getting an ID, it's that it has been put in place in such a short time just in time for the election. There are thousands of people that need ID's in less than 90 days, that's the main issue among other but that's about it. If I didn't drive I wouldn't have an ID, why? Here in Oregon you have to buy an ID, I wouldn't if I didn't have a car. So I guess in your opinion I wouldn't be an honorable citizen. Sort of one dimensional.

phobicsquirrel

catfishbluezz:
I'm curious....how many of you do not have an ID? I'm trying to think of anyone I know that doesn't.... I'm also trying to think of how anyone could get a job, car, house, apartment, bank account, or anything for that matter without one...

some apts don't need an ID, if I already had my house and an account and a car and let my drivers license expire why would I need one? I mean sure most of those things you need an ID but if don't need one in every day life, YOU should have to be forced to buy/get one 90 days before an election when it was never an issue before? That doesn't make sense at all.

xmacro

You need an ID to buy alcohol, to buy cigars or cigarettes, to get a credit card, to cash a check. There's no excuse not to have some form of id, or at least be able to recite your social security number and provide two proofs of residence (ie - utility/cable/electric bills)

catfishbluezz

phobicsquirrel:
catfishbluezz:
xmacro:
JDH:
It is easier and cheaper to get a US passport than a Pensylvania voter ID card. This is nothing more than a new form of Jim Crow, this time it's just aimed at Democrats of all colors instead of just black ones.
If dems or anyone for that matter, are too dumb to produce a student id, drivers license, or their SS # and two utility bills, they shouldn't be voting anyway. Voting is a privilege, not a right.
Exactly... To me it is no different then asking someone to register to vote. It's a step in the process of being a responsible citizen, not racism or prejudice in any way. Also...you only have to get an ID once...it's not a law to prevent someone from voting. I see no reason why any party whom might be adversely affected by this would not do everything in their power to offset it the temporary downside. It would quickly become a non issue once people get off their ass and get an ID. Asking an honorable citizen to get an ID ONCE so they can vote is a small price to pay for democracy. You don't like it...GTFO
The main thing isn't so much about getting an ID, it's that it has been put in place in such a short time just in time for the election. There are thousands of people that need ID's in less than 90 days, that's the main issue among other but that's about it. If I didn't drive I wouldn't have an ID, why? Here in Oregon you have to buy an ID, I wouldn't if I didn't have a car. So I guess in your opinion I wouldn't be an honorable citizen. Sort of one dimensional.

So if the timeframe is the only issue, and they let it slide this time, you'd have no problem with it?
So in OR, you don't need an ID to get a job? Or have a bank account? Or to cash a check? Or to get a credit card? Or to rent an apartment? I'm just trying to think of the basic necessities here bro....has nothing to do with driving.

catfishbluezz

phobicsquirrel:
catfishbluezz:
I'm curious....how many of you do not have an ID? I'm trying to think of anyone I know that doesn't.... I'm also trying to think of how anyone could get a job, car, house, apartment, bank account, or anything for that matter without one...
some apts don't need an ID, if I already had my house and an account and a car and let my drivers license expire why would I need one? I mean sure most of those things you need an ID but if don't need one in every day life, YOU should have to be forced to buy/get one 90 days before an election when it was never an issue before? That doesn't make sense at all.

Well then at that point I'd say the cost of freedom to vote is getting an ID...is that too much to ask if the 90 days wasn't an issue? You had to register to vote right? No one is forcing you to vote; thus, no one is forcing you to get an ID

webmost

xmacro:
JDH:
It is easier and cheaper to get a US passport than a Pensylvania voter ID card. This is nothing more than a new form of Jim Crow, this time it's just aimed at Democrats of all colors instead of just black ones.
If dems or anyone for that matter, are too dumb to produce a student id, drivers license, or their SS # and two utility bills, they shouldn't be voting anyway. Voting is a privilege, not a right.

What the heck's it got to do with Debtocrats? What makes it aimed at them? Is it because they are primarily the ones who vote fraudulently?

Okay, stop right there. When did voting become a priviledge and not a right? Did I actually hear that?

Please. Stop. Both of you. There's no one who's got a chance worth voting for anyway.

xmacro

webmost:
xmacro:
JDH:
It is easier and cheaper to get a US passport than a Pensylvania voter ID card. This is nothing more than a new form of Jim Crow, this time it's just aimed at Democrats of all colors instead of just black ones.
If dems or anyone for that matter, are too dumb to produce a student id, drivers license, or their SS # and two utility bills, they shouldn't be voting anyway. Voting is a privilege, not a right.
What the heck's it got to do with Debtocrats? What makes it aimed at them? Is it because they are primarily the ones who vote fraudulently?

Okay, stop right there. When did voting become a priviledge and not a right? Did I actually hear that?

Please. Stop. Both of you. There's no one who's got a chance worth voting for anyway.

Voting is a privilege, not a right. Rights are given unconditionally and to everyone without exception, privileges are given upon certain conditions.

To vote, you need to be over 18, register to vote (ie - perform an affirmative action), and have not committed a felony - it's not given at birth, it can be revoked for an infraction against the law, and it can stay revoked even after you've served your sentence.

Rights on the other hand, are given at birth, stay with you throughout your life, and you don't need to register to receive them the way privileges do. If a right is taken away due to incarceration, it's given back automatically after you've served your sentence.

Vulchor

I know MANY elderly adults in assisted living facilities, their homes, skilled nursing facilities, ect. because of my job. Many, if not most, of these people (at least in the facilities) have no current/valid ID any longer as they do not drive or need one. They do have their wits about them however and do enjoy the privledge of voting. These are the same people touted as our past, verterans, patriots, wise, ect. They are the ones being hurt by this as well, yet brushed under the rug of the idea of "voter fraud" which was stated at least in Penn. and Ohio not to be an issue-----although someone is making it one.

BTW, for the record, I am for having an ID as a requirement to vote. HOWEVER, to do this all in an election year is poor form. Make it a mandate in 2 yrs or 4 yrs say, not just to try and win a state or 2 for your candidate.

beatnic

http://www.vote411.org/bystateresult.php?state=PA

This will get you an absentee ballot form for PA. Every State has them. All of them can be filled out without showing an ID.
You can call it in and get a damn ballot sent to you. Voter Suppression is nothing more than a tag line.

Vulchor

Voter fraud appears to be a very similar "tag line" then.

beatnic

Vulchor:
Voter fraud appears to be a very similar "tag line" then.

I suspect there is also a bit of truth there.

catfishbluezz

Vulchor:
I know MANY elderly adults in assisted living facilities, their homes, skilled nursing facilities, ect. because of my job. Many, if not most, of these people (at least in the facilities) have no current/valid ID any longer as they do not drive or need one. They do have their wits about them however and do enjoy the privledge of voting. These are the same people touted as our past, verterans, patriots, wise, ect. They are the ones being hurt by this as well, yet brushed under the rug of the idea of "voter fraud" which was stated at least in Penn. and Ohio not to be an issue-----although someone is making it one.

BTW, for the record, I am for having an ID as a requirement to vote. HOWEVER, to do this all in an election year is poor form. Make it a mandate in 2 yrs or 4 yrs say, not just to try and win a state or 2 for your candidate.

Knowing that generation, what they went through, and their resiliency...I'd be willing to bet they will go out of their way to get the needed ID if they don't have it.... Those are some tough folks...a law like that will not prevent them.

xmacro

Vulchor:
I know MANY elderly adults in assisted living facilities, their homes, skilled nursing facilities, ect. because of my job. Many, if not most, of these people (at least in the facilities) have no current/valid ID any longer as they do not drive or need one. They do have their wits about them however and do enjoy the privledge of voting. These are the same people touted as our past, verterans, patriots, wise, ect. They are the ones being hurt by this as well, yet brushed under the rug of the idea of "voter fraud" which was stated at least in Penn. and Ohio not to be an issue-----although someone is making it one.

BTW, for the record, I am for having an ID as a requirement to vote. HOWEVER, to do this all in an election year is poor form. Make it a mandate in 2 yrs or 4 yrs say, not just to try and win a state or 2 for your candidate.

Funny you should mention that - in it's attempt to block the PA voter reform act, the ACLU trotted out a 93-yr old granny who was much the same as you mention here. The judge found that since the PA law provided free ID's to anyone who knew their SS # and could provide any two proofs of residence in the State, that the law should not be blocked

Vulchor

Macro---Judge's also agreed, at least at one point, an interracial marriage would result in 2-7 yrs hard labor in prison. Now while many today still agree with this, its partof the reason I dont give too much faith for good moral judgements to "dem legal type folk".

Catfish----I know what I said about the elderly to be true. I dont know anything about generalizations about an entire generation of people and their fight or resiliency when in their 80's or 90's...seems to subjective to me, sorry.

xmacro

Vulchor:
Macro---Judge's also agreed, at least at one point, an interracial marriage would result in 2-7 yrs hard labor in prison. Now while many today still agree with this, its partof the reason I dont give too much faith for good moral judgements to "dem legal type folk".

Vulch, the amount of things I want to say right now about your asshattery and sheer stupidity is mind boggling. There really is no hope of a zealot like you not using some inane, head-up-your-ass analogy to blow everything out of proportion, so there's no reason to continue talking about this with you

EDIT - Not that you'll care, but the lead plaintiff for the ACLU, the 93-yr old granny, got her ID after the case was over. But please, continue with the segregation and racism comments. http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/pa-voter-id-plaintiff-granted-identification-card-on-the-same-day-her-attorneys-file-appeal/2012/08/17/8029b9f4-e859-11e1-9739-eef99c5fb285_story.html

Vulchor

Thank you for talking down to me and resorting to name calling, certainly gives you credibility.

xmacro

Vulchor:
I dont give too much faith for good moral judgements to "dem legal type folk". . . ..

Thank you for talking down to me and resorting to name calling, certainly gives you credibility.

This conversation started out about voter ID laws and was progressing as such until you went and made it personal accusing me of having no moral moorings. You're part of the reason every debate in this country turns poinsonous - you can't stop yourself from either personally attacking the other side, or injecting vitriol into every disagreement, then you claim surprise and shock when someone calls you out for it.

This is where other people like you can be found - do us all a favor and go there: http://www.reddit.com/r/politics
<BR<

Vulchor

Actual I never called your morals into question, I called out Judges decisions and their morality into question---thats what I meant by the legal types----it has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with you, sorry to say

Additionally, I never called you a name or injected anything personal, if anything I attacked a wide ranging political group----similar to the majority of your posts and the left wing. So at best----Hello Kettle, this is pot.......At worst, shame on you.

xmacro

You know full well I'm an attorney, and I've asked you on multiple occasions to stay out of my profession - you don't know what you're talking about with legal matters. You knew exactly what you were insinuating; save your selfrighteous antics for someone more naive.

Vulchor

Now you call me a liar, nice. Yes, I did know you an atty but I DID NOT think of that at the time. I dont truly care enough to remember your profession every time I post to you, nor do your "credentials" generally figure into my thought process on topics of political nature. Thats not me being rude btw, its the truth of the matter and I think your giving yourself a little too much credit to think I care or think that much about your profession-----even though you do like to tout it. Believe what you want, as Im sure you will-----but I swear on my own life an that of my loved ones I was not insinuating anything about you or meant to direct it at you. Read my post again perhaps without the personal defenses up or the feeling that every conversation about law or legal matters has to involve your degree.

xmacro

Vulchor:
-but I swear on my own life an that of my loved ones I was not insinuating anything about you or meant to direct it at you.

That's a bet I wouldn't take

laker1963

xmacro:
Vulchor:
-but I swear on my own life an that of my loved ones I was not insinuating anything about you or meant to direct it at you.
That's a bet I wouldn't take

Wow, Macro, really? If you are an attorney I would think you would have much better debating skills and certainly would not let yourself get so emotionally wrapped up in ANY subject as you would know how it can cloud your judgement. In this case you are guilty of everything you are accusing others of, and then even end with a snide remark after someone tries to clear up a statement you mistakenly took as a personal attack. WOW.

phobicsquirrel

xmacro:
You know full well I'm an attorney, and I've asked you on multiple occasions to stay out of my profession - you don't know what you're talking about with legal matters. You knew exactly what you were insinuating; save your selfrighteous antics for someone more naive.

--nevermind