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Boycott Arizona???........Nah.

lilwing88lilwing88 Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 2,787
These are scary times we live in, fellas. Political correctness is getting in the way of personal freedom. Now before you bawk and say, "What? That's crazy talk.....", just remember this:

Before 9/11, nine of the 19 terrorists involved in the attack on the WTC were stopped by law enforcement for various reasons and found to have expired visas. Due to most state's and municipalities' "Sanctuary Laws" for undocumented persons, they were not detained for further investigation.

Now whether you lean right or left on this issue, you can't argue the fact that if we had tougher laws and practices on enforcing illegal immigration, nearly 3,000 innocent people might still be alive today.

We can argue for years on the merits and political correctness of the AZ immigration law, but what's real scary about the whole thing are the various boycotts against the state of AZ that have been popping up all over the country. From CA's hypocritical punishments to a high school canceling a basketball team's trip to AZ for a tourney, they're misdirected, at best. They will only go to hurt the citizens, tax payers of AZ and innocent teenagers, not the politicians they are directed at.

Whether you agree with me on this issue or not, I think there's one thing we can ALL agree on...... we love cigars. So, if you don't agree with the boycotts, I suggest the following: make your next on-line or in-person purchase of cigars be from an Arizona cigar company or B&M.

It's just that simple to make a statement and do what you love at the same time. I know my next purchase, and maybe a few more, will be from AZ. No reason for the hardworking people of AZ to suffer while, people who don't have to live in AZ or know what they're dealing with, see fit to punish them.

Comments

  • PuroFreakPuroFreak Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 4,132
    I agree 100%, but there is one story out of the entire Arizona uproar that really gets under my skin, and that is the school from IL. that told their girls basketball team that they can't go play in a tournament in Arizona because the new law "wouldn't be aligned" with the school's "beliefs and values." That throws up a red flag that this school is more concerned with indoctrinating their students than providing them with the opportunities a school should be promoting. Then the hypocrisy of the administrators of this school really shows when they back tracked and said they are concerned for the safety of the students... REALLY? This same school had no problem sending students to communist China, South America, and the Czech Republic, but Arizona is too dangerous since this immigration law was put into place? If Arizona is too dangerous of a place, then it would just go to show that some serious action is needed to correct the immigration problem. These school administrators need to be told to go home until they learn to actually look out for the children and their best interests instead of making a public outcry in favor of their own liberal political beliefs... This is another prime example of the hypocrisy of liberals. I wrote about this hypocrisy in my last blog on my website www.YouAreALiberal.com if anyone is interested in reading it. Just look under Jay's Blogs. Also check out our PodCasts and "Liberal of the Week" for some more good info on the Arizona Immigration law.
  • RedtailhawkozRedtailhawkoz Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 2,914
    I have Many freinds that Live in Arizona.... all say without illegal aliens the state would be in shambles due to the work they doo for little cash. On the other hand hundreds and hundreds of people would be alive today if the illegals that KILL people on a daily basis and bring CRIME and DRUGS into the state were not there or allowe dot be there...... Many more people have beeen killed by these Criminals than ( 9/11) Chicago for instance has the highest Murder rate in the citys history, many unsolved, mostley Gang and Illegal aliens had there hands on this.
    DRUGS and GANG Violence is the ROOT of it ALL! How Many WHite AMERICAN GANGS do you SEE?
    Hells ANgels, OUTLAWS, KKK.............. It is an Intersting DEBATE that I am sure will continue on through History,
    AMERICA IS IN THE SHITTER PERIOD and it is DUE to Our OPEN BOARDER POLICYS over the Last 250 Years and then SOME!
  • xmacroxmacro Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 3,402
    Interesting tidbit - most Americans, of all political stripes, support the Az law

    Recent poll found that:
    52% of Democrats support the new law
    82% of Republicans support the new law
    54% of Independants support the law
    Overall, 73% of all Americans support the new law

    Seems the media are the only ones who don't like the law
  • gripnripgripnrip Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 406
    I'm with you lilwing...I'll go out of my way to spend time/money in AZ.
  • Renaissance_ManRenaissance_Man Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 972
    I agree with this... However, what happens when terrorist become WASPs? Imagine a group of blue eyed, blond, well-dressed gentlemen. You wouldn't question them next to the mexican beside them or the arab or whatever... Unfortunately this is just a small bandaid that won't deal with the terrorist problem in the long run. It will deal with a lot of poor immigrants here, but not heavy duty terrorism. Terrorist are getttng smarter and smarter unfortunately and are "using" quite often people that don't look suspicious... Anyway... just a few unorganized thoughts. Plus, not to talk about the huge financial effects barring all illegals will have on the US. Unfortunately the US is still a country that heavily relies on cheap-labor illegals for its day-to-day dirty jobs that support the ecosystem. Few Americans I know would want to mow the lawns ALL day-long for a few bucks (much less than minimum wages)... I read an article on this in BusinessWeek recently - it was quite interesting. I suggest looking it up if you can...
  • zoom6zoomzoom6zoom Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 1,214
    When I was growing up, we didn't have any day labor migrants hanging about. Somehow all the lawns got mowed. I myself made a lot of money taking care of yards. Had to do something, we didn't have video games and I'd already read pretty much everything in the town library.

    No one is getting stopped on the way to the Dairy Queen and asked for their papers, no matter how much Obambi wants you to believe it. If you aren't picked up for committing a crime, your status is not getting checked. If they check everyone's status who gets picked up, it's not profiling, is it? This system has been working well in my county for over two years.
  • lilwing88lilwing88 Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 2,787
    Renaissance_Man:
    I agree with this... However, what happens when terrorist become WASPs? Imagine a group of blue eyed, blond, well-dressed gentlemen. You wouldn't question them next to the mexican beside them or the arab or whatever... Unfortunately this is just a small bandaid that won't deal with the terrorist problem in the long run. It will deal with a lot of poor immigrants here, but not heavy duty terrorism. Terrorist are getttng smarter and smarter unfortunately and are "using" quite often people that don't look suspicious... Anyway... just a few unorganized thoughts. Plus, not to talk about the huge financial effects barring all illegals will have on the US. Unfortunately the US is still a country that heavily relies on cheap-labor illegals for its day-to-day dirty jobs that support the ecosystem. Few Americans I know would want to mow the lawns ALL day-long for a few bucks (much less than minimum wages)... I read an article on this in BusinessWeek recently - it was quite interesting. I suggest looking it up if you can...
    You always hear mention of the hardworking illegal aliens doing the cheap labor that no one else will, who will be unfairly targeted and shipped back to Mexico. I'm sorry, but that's pure propaganda. The negatives of illegal immigration (ie. crime, murder, drugs, human trafficking and prostitution) far outweigh the unfortunate side effect of a few generally honest hard working undocumented immigrants being deported so that law enforcement has a useful tool to combat crime.

    To say that our country "relies" on the cheap labor being provided by illegal immigrants is more propaganda. Businesses and corporations take advantage of, but don't rely on, cheap labor. It's unfortunate that we've somehow grown accustomed to the theory that if we did away with cheap illegal immigrant labor that we'd be left with jobs that no people want and companies that can't afford to pay fair wages for.

    I only brought up the terrorist example to show how useful a tool this is to law enforcement, in general. Not necessarily a anti-terrorism tool. And domestic terrorism is a whole 'nother seperate issue....

    While the powers that be argue and debate over the Constitution and political correctness, the good people of AZ will suffer the fallout either way.
  • phobicsquirrelphobicsquirrel Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 7,349
    I do think more could be done and if you have an expired visa, you get shipped back, though I do not know how or what would make that happen. As far as Arizona is concerned, I would think it would be more expensive to detain people, lawsuits, and the time taken away from other police duties. I think it would be cheaper to crack down on the business's that hire people that are illegal to pay "slave" wages.
    One think I sort of agree on with one of their new laws is the ethnic studies bill or what-ever they called it. I do think that if you can't speak English then you don't get to go to school or you need to pay for private schools. Here in Oregon a law passed, or is in the process to allow students who can't speak english to take tests in their own language in order to graduate. I find that very, very wrong. Just my opinion, however I don't think if someone has an accent or doesn't sound white they should be fired or replaced as the bill sort of outlines. I just have a problem with someone not being able to read/write/speak this countries natural language especially when their getting their education paid by the american taxpayers.
  • gdsim1gdsim1 Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 213
    phobicsquirrel:
    I do think more could be done and if you have an expired visa, you get shipped back, though I do not know how or what would make that happen. As far as Arizona is concerned, I would think it would be more expensive to detain people, lawsuits, and the time taken away from other police duties. I think it would be cheaper to crack down on the business's that hire people that are illegal to pay "slave" wages.
    One think I sort of agree on with one of their new laws is the ethnic studies bill or what-ever they called it. I do think that if you can't speak English then you don't get to go to school or you need to pay for private schools. Here in Oregon a law passed, or is in the process to allow students who can't speak english to take tests in their own language in order to graduate. I find that very, very wrong. Just my opinion, however I don't think if someone has an accent or doesn't sound white they should be fired or replaced as the bill sort of outlines. I just have a problem with someone not being able to read/write/speak this countries natural language especially when their getting their education paid by the american taxpayers.
    So are these immigrants in OR taking their English tests... in Spanish? Or Arabic? Or French???

  • Garen BGaren B Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 977
    lilwing88:
    You always hear mention of the hardworking illegal aliens doing the cheap labor that no one else will, who will be unfairly targeted and shipped back to Mexico. I'm sorry, but that's pure propaganda. The negatives of illegal immigration (ie. crime, murder, drugs, human trafficking and prostitution) far outweigh the unfortunate side effect of a few generally honest hard working undocumented immigrants being deported so that law enforcement has a useful tool to combat crime.

    To say that our country "relies" on the cheap labor being provided by illegal immigrants is more propaganda. Businesses and corporations take advantage of, but don't rely on, cheap labor. It's unfortunate that we've somehow grown accustomed to the theory that if we did away with cheap illegal immigrant labor that we'd be left with jobs that no people want and companies that can't afford to pay fair wages for.

    I only brought up the terrorist example to show how useful a tool this is to law enforcement, in general. Not necessarily a anti-terrorism tool. And domestic terrorism is a whole 'nother seperate issue....

    While the powers that be argue and debate over the Constitution and political correctness, the good people of AZ will suffer the fallout either way.
    I support your first post lilwing and I support the AZ law, but most of the crappy jobs (such as working the produce fields, day laborer, etc.) are done by illegals here in CA. I drive through wine country here in Socal every day and I usually only see mexicans out tending to the vines, harvesting and other physical labor jobs. All the grunt work is done by them, everything else with the winemaking process is done by other nationalities.

    Boiling it down to economics, if you had the option of hiring one guy or three guys for the same pay, the most profitable option is to go with the three guys.
  • PuroFreakPuroFreak Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 4,132
    Garen B:
    lilwing88:
    You always hear mention of the hardworking illegal aliens doing the cheap labor that no one else will, who will be unfairly targeted and shipped back to Mexico. I'm sorry, but that's pure propaganda. The negatives of illegal immigration (ie. crime, murder, drugs, human trafficking and prostitution) far outweigh the unfortunate side effect of a few generally honest hard working undocumented immigrants being deported so that law enforcement has a useful tool to combat crime.

    To say that our country "relies" on the cheap labor being provided by illegal immigrants is more propaganda. Businesses and corporations take advantage of, but don't rely on, cheap labor. It's unfortunate that we've somehow grown accustomed to the theory that if we did away with cheap illegal immigrant labor that we'd be left with jobs that no people want and companies that can't afford to pay fair wages for.

    I only brought up the terrorist example to show how useful a tool this is to law enforcement, in general. Not necessarily a anti-terrorism tool. And domestic terrorism is a whole 'nother seperate issue....

    While the powers that be argue and debate over the Constitution and political correctness, the good people of AZ will suffer the fallout either way.
    I support your first post lilwing and I support the AZ law, but most of the crappy jobs (such as working the produce fields, day laborer, etc.) are done by illegals here in CA. I drive through wine country here in Socal every day and I usually only see mexicans out tending to the vines, harvesting and other physical labor jobs. All the grunt work is done by them, everything else with the winemaking process is done by other nationalities.

    Boiling it down to economics, if you had the option of hiring one guy or three guys for the same pay, the most profitable option is to go with the three guys.
    That is correct, most of these jobs are done by illegal immigrants, but if the immigrants weren't here, the jobs would still get done. I think that is the point he was making. The way to correct this is through part of what Phobic said, target the businesses that hire the illegals. But that alone won't work because many illegal immigrants come here to smuggle and sell drugs, so that is why the Arizona immigration law is one big part of the solution to this growing epidemic. Attack both issues, not just one, and we will see real results then.
  • phobicsquirrelphobicsquirrel Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 7,349
    gdsim1:
    phobicsquirrel:
    I do think more could be done and if you have an expired visa, you get shipped back, though I do not know how or what would make that happen. As far as Arizona is concerned, I would think it would be more expensive to detain people, lawsuits, and the time taken away from other police duties. I think it would be cheaper to crack down on the business's that hire people that are illegal to pay "slave" wages.
    One think I sort of agree on with one of their new laws is the ethnic studies bill or what-ever they called it. I do think that if you can't speak English then you don't get to go to school or you need to pay for private schools. Here in Oregon a law passed, or is in the process to allow students who can't speak english to take tests in their own language in order to graduate. I find that very, very wrong. Just my opinion, however I don't think if someone has an accent or doesn't sound white they should be fired or replaced as the bill sort of outlines. I just have a problem with someone not being able to read/write/speak this countries natural language especially when their getting their education paid by the american taxpayers.
    So are these immigrants in OR taking their English tests... in Spanish? Or Arabic? Or French???

    not english tests, just school tests to graduate. and I believe it is for all languages but I'm pretty sure is mostly for spanish. All of the students I remember from school who came over here (germany/france/spain) spoke pretty good english, and they had too. It's pretty hard to become an exchange student. I've even heard from my wife's friend that her son's school has classes for just spanish speaking kids. Which I pay for through my taxes. I do find that very, very wrong.
  • Renaissance_ManRenaissance_Man Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 972
    Garen B:
    lilwing88:
    You always hear mention of the hardworking illegal aliens doing the cheap labor that no one else will, who will be unfairly targeted and shipped back to Mexico. I'm sorry, but that's pure propaganda. The negatives of illegal immigration (ie. crime, murder, drugs, human trafficking and prostitution) far outweigh the unfortunate side effect of a few generally honest hard working undocumented immigrants being deported so that law enforcement has a useful tool to combat crime.

    To say that our country "relies" on the cheap labor being provided by illegal immigrants is more propaganda. Businesses and corporations take advantage of, but don't rely on, cheap labor. It's unfortunate that we've somehow grown accustomed to the theory that if we did away with cheap illegal immigrant labor that we'd be left with jobs that no people want and companies that can't afford to pay fair wages for.

    I only brought up the terrorist example to show how useful a tool this is to law enforcement, in general. Not necessarily a anti-terrorism tool. And domestic terrorism is a whole 'nother seperate issue....

    While the powers that be argue and debate over the Constitution and political correctness, the good people of AZ will suffer the fallout either way.
    I support your first post lilwing and I support the AZ law, but most of the crappy jobs (such as working the produce fields, day laborer, etc.) are done by illegals here in CA. I drive through wine country here in Socal every day and I usually only see mexicans out tending to the vines, harvesting and other physical labor jobs. All the grunt work is done by them, everything else with the winemaking process is done by other nationalities.

    Boiling it down to economics, if you had the option of hiring one guy or three guys for the same pay, the most profitable option is to go with the three guys.
    Yeah - its true... I agree with this as well, but was simply pointing out an economical flaw in the way we have LET business develop... The worst that could happen is that businesses that rely heavily on such labor will have to change and if they can't manage financially - they will close. But closed businesses might not be too bad anyhow - it would kind of weed things out a bit. Just like is needed with our banks right now. On a side note - there are so many banks in US versus 1000% LESS banks in other countries and even in our neighbor - Canada... Anyhow - there need to be some major structural changes done in America - not only when it comes to immigration laws and all, but also to business... Anyhow - the funny thing is that with the illegals - LEGALs are mixed in. And that;s where the protests began. Cause there are Mexicans and others working those fields or whatever that ARE here actually legally... So they complain that they don't want to be asked for their documents cause it makes them feel like *** pretty much... blah... i feel like it will all end bad anyway - the media just tends to throw so much *** in the fires that at the end we have an unnecessary explosion...
  • fla-gypsyfla-gypsy Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 3,023
    If it was closer I would make a point to spend some money there. Arizona is just doing what the Feds should be doing.
  • HaybletHayblet Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 2,400
    fla-gypsy:
    If it was closer I would make a point to spend some money there. Arizona is just doing what the Feds should be doing.
    +1 I'm far from a Political person I don't even vote most of the time.I think more states should have stricter illegal immigrant laws I'm sick of seeing 90% of things being in English and Spanish, we shouldn't be catering to people who refuse to learn our language or follow our laws. Plain and simple. /rant off
  • gdsim1gdsim1 Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 213
    phobicsquirrel:
    gdsim1:
    phobicsquirrel:
    I do think more could be done and if you have an expired visa, you get shipped back, though I do not know how or what would make that happen. As far as Arizona is concerned, I would think it would be more expensive to detain people, lawsuits, and the time taken away from other police duties. I think it would be cheaper to crack down on the business's that hire people that are illegal to pay "slave" wages.
    One think I sort of agree on with one of their new laws is the ethnic studies bill or what-ever they called it. I do think that if you can't speak English then you don't get to go to school or you need to pay for private schools. Here in Oregon a law passed, or is in the process to allow students who can't speak english to take tests in their own language in order to graduate. I find that very, very wrong. Just my opinion, however I don't think if someone has an accent or doesn't sound white they should be fired or replaced as the bill sort of outlines. I just have a problem with someone not being able to read/write/speak this countries natural language especially when their getting their education paid by the american taxpayers.
    So are these immigrants in OR taking their English tests... in Spanish? Or Arabic? Or French???

    not english tests, just school tests to graduate. and I believe it is for all languages but I'm pretty sure is mostly for spanish. All of the students I remember from school who came over here (germany/france/spain) spoke pretty good english, and they had too. It's pretty hard to become an exchange student. I've even heard from my wife's friend that her son's school has classes for just spanish speaking kids. Which I pay for through my taxes. I do find that very, very wrong.
    I guess thats what Im getting at Squirrel... ENGLISH is still part of the curriculum at schools isnt it? If they have to take the ENGLISH part of their school tests to graduate in SPANISH, because they dont understand ENGLISH... WTF??? How is this not an automatic failure??? GowDamn ridiculous is what it is.

    Im all for hard working peoples of all nationalities coming to the land of opportunity to better themselves, but fer Chrissakes, do it the right way!

    (blood pressure spiking... rant - OFF)
  • phobicsquirrelphobicsquirrel Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 7,349
    gdsim1:
    phobicsquirrel:
    gdsim1:
    phobicsquirrel:
    I do think more could be done and if you have an expired visa, you get shipped back, though I do not know how or what would make that happen. As far as Arizona is concerned, I would think it would be more expensive to detain people, lawsuits, and the time taken away from other police duties. I think it would be cheaper to crack down on the business's that hire people that are illegal to pay "slave" wages.
    One think I sort of agree on with one of their new laws is the ethnic studies bill or what-ever they called it. I do think that if you can't speak English then you don't get to go to school or you need to pay for private schools. Here in Oregon a law passed, or is in the process to allow students who can't speak english to take tests in their own language in order to graduate. I find that very, very wrong. Just my opinion, however I don't think if someone has an accent or doesn't sound white they should be fired or replaced as the bill sort of outlines. I just have a problem with someone not being able to read/write/speak this countries natural language especially when their getting their education paid by the american taxpayers.
    So are these immigrants in OR taking their English tests... in Spanish? Or Arabic? Or French???

    not english tests, just school tests to graduate. and I believe it is for all languages but I'm pretty sure is mostly for spanish. All of the students I remember from school who came over here (germany/france/spain) spoke pretty good english, and they had too. It's pretty hard to become an exchange student. I've even heard from my wife's friend that her son's school has classes for just spanish speaking kids. Which I pay for through my taxes. I do find that very, very wrong.
    I guess thats what Im getting at Squirrel... ENGLISH is still part of the curriculum at schools isnt it? If they have to take the ENGLISH part of their school tests to graduate in SPANISH, because they dont understand ENGLISH... WTF??? How is this not an automatic failure??? GowDamn ridiculous is what it is.

    Im all for hard working peoples of all nationalities coming to the land of opportunity to better themselves, but fer Chrissakes, do it the right way!

    (blood pressure spiking... rant - OFF)
    yep...
  • Amos UmwhatAmos Umwhat Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 2,523
    fla-gypsy:
    If it was closer I would make a point to spend some money there. Arizona is just doing what the Feds should be doing.
    I think you may be on to something here. I don't care much for the "profiling" aspect of this, but Arizona is the epicenter of an invasion. You know, there is the Second Amendment, perhaps the good people of Arizona should consider forming a few "well-regulated militias" and dealing with the armed invaders crossing their borders? On the other hand, perhaps the country as a whole could come up with some more creative ways of dealing with migratory workers, making it easier for seasonal workers to enter (and subsequently depart on schedule) and do the jobs they do so well. The other thing that would be a sea-change would be to take the money out of the drug trade, easily done by permitting those of legal age to make legal purchases, after all, it put Al Capone out of business. But, too many of us have swallowed too much dogma to allow that, plus, too many budgets would be cut. Crazy talk, huh?
  • VulchorVulchor Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 4,176
    A fence....even a wall. Perched gunman every 300 yards with high powered "toys". One warning from a megaphone...followed by a much bigger noise if instructions not followed. Stops crime, lowers built in medical costs, saves some jobs (and even creates some)...I dont see the problem here.
  • kuzi16kuzi16 Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 14,471
    Vulchor:
    A fence....even a wall. Perched gunman every 300 yards with high powered "toys". One warning from a megaphone...followed by a much bigger noise if instructions not followed. Stops crime, lowers built in medical costs, saves some jobs (and even creates some)...I dont see the problem here.
    i hope you say this like you say many things in this forum: in jest.
    it may be a crime that needs to be stopped but making a boarder guard the judge, jury, and executioner for a crime that hardly deserves death as a sentence, that is a glaring problem.
  • VulchorVulchor Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 4,176
    No Kuzi...not too much in jest at all. No illegal crossing, no need to worry about the man (or woman) with the gun. I know...too right wing but-job of an approach, but obviously I like to be on the poles about political issues. We use the death penalty far too sparingly already.
  • kuzi16kuzi16 Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 14,471
    Vulchor:
    We use the death penalty far too sparingly already.
    talk about roll reversal....

    i understand the argument that the death penalty is the price you pay for serious crimes but im not sure i can make a case that crossing a boarder illegally is on par with murder and rape.
    yes its a problem, but cant there be other ways to solve the problem other than violating the right to life?

    what about enforcing the rules about hiring illegals? if there is no work for them they will not come here right?
    >im in favor of a fence, wall, barbed wire, but death without trial? iduno.... thats a bit unconstitutional.


    edit: i do agree that we use the death penalty too sparingly. i support arizona with the tough laws. i support their products. like many many issues, i believe there is a solution that can be found that does not violate the rights of the individual.
  • Alex WilliamsAlex Williams Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 1,515
    Vulchor:
    No Kuzi...not too much in jest at all. No illegal crossing, no need to worry about the man (or woman) with the gun. I know...too right wing but-job of an approach, but obviously I like to be on the poles about political issues. We use the death penalty far too sparingly already.
    In those last two posts of yours, you won me over!! Youre lettin that good ol boy, southern thinkin side out. All you need now is a can of Copenhagen, couple animals on the wall, jacked up truck with country blaring, and a couple guns in the gun rack and you will be good to go (and yes I fit that profile perfectly)! I like it bro, I like it a lot! :D
  • kuzi16kuzi16 Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 14,471
    Vulchor:
    No illegal crossing, no need to worry about the man (or woman) with the gun.
    how about we kill everyone that speeds on sight as well? dont speed and youll be fine
    why dont we shoot everyone that smokes weed too. if you dont smoke weed you wont have anything to worry about.
    while we are at it, how about we shoot everyone that violates their probation even if its just to go out of state to visit family? dont visit family and you wont have to worry about getting shot.
    ooh! how about we shoot people for pilfering bread to feed their family? heck, why dont we have an on the spot death penalty for EVERY non-violent crime in the US. no judge. no jury... just death


    while we are violating rights...
    then how about we empower the government to search our houses every day? if you have nothing to hide why is this a problem?


    the crime and punishment do not fall in line here at all.

  • Alex WilliamsAlex Williams Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 1,515
    They could use taser guns... Or those ones that inject a tracker so we can find out where they get jobs/ drug hotspots/ where the get others to cross. I really like the wall idea though...
  • VulchorVulchor Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 4,176
    Im ok with Alex's idea----especially the tracer idea so we can get 'em out. But I still like the gunman idea better. Sorry, but its one of my issues---I voted twice for Pat Buchanan almost solely for his stance on immigration, and would do so again.

    The difference Kuzi is that all those things are indeed small crimes (in the grand scheme)---and while you may say so is illegal border crossing...EVERYTHING done in this country once you have crossed the border is done under a fallacy or false pretenses. Just by being here, your commiting a crime in addition to whatever else you may or may not do illegally. Its not ok to commit crimes, but the act of JUST COMING here is a crime....if they're willing to break our laws to get here, why should I trust them to be good citizens otherwise???Sorry, not bending here. Dont come, nothing to worry about. Do it legally like so many easter Europeans have over the years...and dont ask for my pity, my health care, or a drivers license.
  • kuzi16kuzi16 Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 14,471
    Vulchor:
    Im ok with Alex's idea----especially the tracer idea so we can get 'em out. But I still like the gunman idea better. Sorry, but its one of my issues---I voted twice for Pat Buchanan almost solely for his stance on immigration, and would do so again.

    The difference Kuzi is that all those things are indeed small crimes (in the grand scheme)---and while you may say so is illegal border crossing...EVERYTHING done in this country once you have crossed the border is done under a fallacy or false pretenses. Just by being here, your commiting a crime in addition to whatever else you may or may not do illegally. Its not ok to commit crimes, but the act of JUST COMING here is a crime....if they're willing to break our laws to get here, why should I trust them to be good citizens otherwise???Sorry, not bending here. Dont come, nothing to worry about. Do it legally like so many easter Europeans have over the years...and dont ask for my pity, my health care, or a drivers license.
    whats strange here is that i agree with everything you are saying about illegal aliens minus the shooting them on sight thing.


    its just a bit extreme given the crime.

    its like shooting someone for trespassing even if they have yet to hurt/rape/rob/or set foot in the house, just on the property. it a bit extreme.
  • lilwing88lilwing88 Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 2,787
    I listened to Ted Nugent on the radio yesterday talking about this issue about AZ. Talk about "perspective". Teddy boy really has a way with words. Personally, I think Teddy should trade in his guitar for a podium and do some REAL work. He's got my vote! But that's for another thread.......

    He brought up a real good point about all of this that I think people tend to lose focus on. People always bring up the notion that this law may, in some way, unfairly target certain individuals and punish the hardworking illegal immigrants who just want a piece of the "American Dream". This law means different things to different people. I think we can all agree that anyone who wants to come to this country and find honest work and make a life for them and their family, should be welcomed with open arms. We do have a process for this. And while it may be flawed and slow, it's all we got right now. But I think the people we forget about are the ones who have had the "American Dream" taken from them. There are families sitting at dinner every night staring at an empty chair where Dad or Mom used to sit. Too many law enforcement and border patrol agents have lost their lives trying to enforce the laws of this country. If this law saves one officer's life for every 10 hardworking illegal immigrants deported, then it's worth it.

    Oh and BTW, to get back to the original intention of this thread. Cigar King in Scottsdale is running some great specials this week. Check out their website and buy some gars!!!!
  • fla-gypsyfla-gypsy Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 3,023
    I see where the city of LA opened their stupid pie hole and started talking boycotting Arizona stuff but forgot they get 25% of their electricity from there. DOH! take your stinking foot out of your mouth now because the Az Governor says she will cut your power off if you try it. This is fun!
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