Hawk55:So I gather you're not a fan of Raceguns?
cholmes8310:For under $1500, you've got a lot of options. I personally like Kimber 1911's. My next purchase will be a Kimber Tactical .45. But also Para Ordnance makes a good gun, and you may be able to find Wilson Combat or Ed Brown 1911 customs for that price. Another option still is to get something like a Springfield Armory 1911. They sell base models and have an in-house custom shop with all kinds of upgrade options. I personally love the SA 1911 Trophy Match as it comes, and it can be found for your price.
wwestern: cholmes8310:For under $1500, you've got a lot of options. I personally like Kimber 1911's. My next purchase will be a Kimber Tactical .45. But also Para Ordnance makes a good gun, and you may be able to find Wilson Combat or Ed Brown 1911 customs for that price. Another option still is to get something like a Springfield Armory 1911. They sell base models and have an in-house custom shop with all kinds of upgrade options. I personally love the SA 1911 Trophy Match as it comes, and it can be found for your price. My buddy has a Trophy match and it cost him right at 1500 bucks not sure he got his money worth though....
zoom6zoom:Have you ever patterned your Judge? Didn't do well with a lot of loads in range tests. A fun shooter but not one I'd choose for a carry gun. http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot41.htm
One2gofst: zoom6zoom:Have you ever patterned your Judge? Didn't do well with a lot of loads in range tests. A fun shooter but not one I'd choose for a carry gun. http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot41.htm I've told so many people how the Judge is a poor weapon for anything besides goofing around, yet people still want to believe it is the be all, end all of handguns. So now, I just let them.
Alex Williams: One2gofst: zoom6zoom:Have you ever patterned your Judge? Didn't do well with a lot of loads in range tests. A fun shooter but not one I'd choose for a carry gun. http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot41.htm I've told so many people how the Judge is a poor weapon for anything besides goofing around, yet people still want to believe it is the be all, end all of handguns. So now, I just let them. would it be a good snake gun? just one to put 410 shells in and carry while im in the woods
jihiggs:I like the idea of the judge, shoots .45 for when you really need it, but can shoot 410 for screwing around. they say its not good for anything but what is that based on? I just want something to greet unexpected visitors at the door with instead of a bat and that thing looks pretty mean.
vegassparky: AND everyone in the gun industry is loving on this idea for a beginner hand gun for self defense. it cant be matched in self defense, period.
One2gofst: Alex Williams: One2gofst: zoom6zoom:Have you ever patterned your Judge? Didn't do well with a lot of loads in range tests. A fun shooter but not one I'd choose for a carry gun. http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot41.htm I've told so many people how the Judge is a poor weapon for anything besides goofing around, yet people still want to believe it is the be all, end all of handguns. So now, I just let them. would it be a good snake gun? just one to put 410 shells in and carry while im in the woods It should do fine for that, but I'd rather just carry shotshells in a .38 revolver. Truly, the Judge excels as a toy, and there is nothing wrong with that. People just try to make it more than it is. Anything the .45LC can do out of a Judge, it can do better out of a dedicated revolver For those who want to shoot .410 just remember that a .410 slug has about the same energy as a .44 mag WHEN SHOT OUT OF A SHOTGUN. Out of a short barrelled pistol it is not effective. Bottom line is you get a lot of people who fall in love with the idea of carrying a shotgun on your hip and then refuse to see the negative aspects of the pistol. Everyone can buy and even carry whatever they like. The only thing I have a problem with is when people seek advice and someone who has fallen in love with the Judge myth promotes said myth to that person who, with an absence of any reasoned discussion of the numerous shortcomings of the judge, also falls in love with the myth. And so it goes. Sorry for going OT there.
vegassparky: One2gofst: Alex Williams: One2gofst: zoom6zoom:Have you ever patterned your Judge? Didn't do well with a lot of loads in range tests. A fun shooter but not one I'd choose for a carry gun. http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot41.htm I've told so many people how the Judge is a poor weapon for anything besides goofing around, yet people still want to believe it is the be all, end all of handguns. So now, I just let them. would it be a good snake gun? just one to put 410 shells in and carry while im in the woods It should do fine for that, but I'd rather just carry shotshells in a .38 revolver. Truly, the Judge excels as a toy, and there is nothing wrong with that. People just try to make it more than it is. Anything the .45LC can do out of a Judge, it can do better out of a dedicated revolver For those who want to shoot .410 just remember that a .410 slug has about the same energy as a .44 mag WHEN SHOT OUT OF A SHOTGUN. Out of a short barrelled pistol it is not effective. Bottom line is you get a lot of people who fall in love with the idea of carrying a shotgun on your hip and then refuse to see the negative aspects of the pistol. Everyone can buy and even carry whatever they like. The only thing I have a problem with is when people seek advice and someone who has fallen in love with the Judge myth promotes said myth to that person who, with an absence of any reasoned discussion of the numerous shortcomings of the judge, also falls in love with the myth. And so it goes. Sorry for going OT there.dude you got it all wrong. i didnt say it is the best gun. i dont carry the judge. and any smart person wouldnt buy .410 slug rounds. buck shot so you dont miss close up, thats why its a good beginner gun and easy to clean. and i wouldnt say i fell in love with it. so what is the negative aspect? do tell
One2gofst: vegassparky: One2gofst: Alex Williams: One2gofst: zoom6zoom:Have you ever patterned your Judge? Didn't do well with a lot of loads in range tests. A fun shooter but not one I'd choose for a carry gun. http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot41.htm I've told so many people how the Judge is a poor weapon for anything besides goofing around, yet people still want to believe it is the be all, end all of handguns. So now, I just let them. would it be a good snake gun? just one to put 410 shells in and carry while im in the woods It should do fine for that, but I'd rather just carry shotshells in a .38 revolver. Truly, the Judge excels as a toy, and there is nothing wrong with that. People just try to make it more than it is. Anything the .45LC can do out of a Judge, it can do better out of a dedicated revolver For those who want to shoot .410 just remember that a .410 slug has about the same energy as a .44 mag WHEN SHOT OUT OF A SHOTGUN. Out of a short barrelled pistol it is not effective. Bottom line is you get a lot of people who fall in love with the idea of carrying a shotgun on your hip and then refuse to see the negative aspects of the pistol. Everyone can buy and even carry whatever they like. The only thing I have a problem with is when people seek advice and someone who has fallen in love with the Judge myth promotes said myth to that person who, with an absence of any reasoned discussion of the numerous shortcomings of the judge, also falls in love with the myth. And so it goes. Sorry for going OT there.dude you got it all wrong. i didnt say it is the best gun. i dont carry the judge. and any smart person wouldnt buy .410 slug rounds. buck shot so you dont miss close up, thats why its a good beginner gun and easy to clean. and i wouldnt say i fell in love with it. so what is the negative aspect? do tell I am not here to get in a pissing contest. If you really want to know the downsides, here is my take. - 2 1/2" .410 buckshot has inadequate penetration. I don't care how "can't miss" the round is (although this statement itself is not true, if it can't penetrate adequately it won't matter if you hit with it. Even slugs from the Judge do not penetrate adequately. -Although underwhelming terminally, recoil is quite stout. This develops all sorts of bad habits like flinching, especially in new shooters. -.45LC can certainly be an adequate round, however it is not best suited to such a short barrel. However, comparing and length barrel in a dedicated .45LC to a Judge is going to give the advantage in weight and length, giving the Judge no benefit other than the fact that it can fire ineffective .410 shells -The judge only gives you 5 rounds. This is not a liability, per se, as I regularly am armed with a j-frame and do not feel undergunned. However, if I am going to carry a firearm that only holds five rounds I want it as small and light as reasonably possible. You aren't going to get that with a Judge -The Judge is no easier or harder to clean than any other revolver A good beginner gun is one that is not going to build bad habits in the shooter, is easy to maintan, and is relatively inexpensive to shoot. Besides being easy to maintain by virtue that it is a revolver, the Judge fails those other criteria. As for the fallacy that shotguns only need to be pointed in the general vicinity of the target to be effective, even if that were the case a shooter would be infinitely better served by learning to be proficient with a firearm he or she can handle and developing fundamentals than relying on buckshot "so you don't miss up close". If someone is close enough that someone without any fundamental knowledge of how to accurately fire a handgun can be guaranteed a hit with the Judge, I would content they would accurately hit with any firearm (i.e. contact shot, in which case knowing how to run a firearm from retention is of greater importance than your choice of firearm I will concede that there is one area where the judge is better than any other handgun I know of. However, that area is shooting skeet with a handgun. It also does fine for a snake gun. However a .410 isn't going to make a snake more dead than a j-frame with shotshells. Like I said, the only reason someone needs to get any gun they like is that they want one, as far as I am concerned. If someone wants a Judge, more power to them. However, that does not make it a good gun for defense, a good gun for beginners, a good gun for target shooting, etc is not accurate. Someone who is knowledgeable about guns is, of course free to make their own decisions. I guess part of the reason recommendations of the judge rankle me so much is that they are often given to new shooters. The gunshow commandos tell this person that they need this here Judge because it shoots honest-to-God shotshells out of a handgun and they can handle the recoil if they're a man. So that person eagerly buys their compromise gun that does nothing well (save being the best handgun for shooting clay pigeons), learns bad habits by starting off on a gun with too much recoil, and relies on the misguided notion that this gun is a magic talisman that will instantly incapacitate any BG in their general vicinity. Meanwhile said gunshow commando can go and talk that woman who is interested in her first handgun out of an easy to shoot autoloader in to "that nice little j-frame that will fit in your purse real easy." You know, the one with the heavy DA trigger pull, short sight radius, small grips and exceptionally light weight. Just as an setting up that new woman shooter with an Airweight J-frame, as so many love to do, is a disservice that is NOT going to help anyone, so is recommending a Judge for any new shooter. I do want to apologize to the OP for doing this in his thread. I also am not implying you are a new shooter or anything of the like. The subject of new shooters was broached and I merely addressed it. Good luck with your search. I hope you find a firearm that you really like. I wish I had $1500 for a new blaster myself. EDIT: A couple things I forgot to address. Here is your original post recommending the Judge. "One gun you should look at. its a revolver. it is perfect for self defense. and can be bought new for around $500 bucks. check out the JUDGE from taurus. i have one and i love it. its alittle on the heavy side. but it cant be out done. it shoots .45 or .410 shotshells. it holds 5 rounds. i alternate 45 and 410 in mine. it is a awesome piece check it out. " As you can see, you did certainly say you love it. In addition, you said it is perfect for self-defense and addressed the issue of carry. The is in contrast to what you stated in your last post. I can only go by what you type and take it at face value.
One2gofst:The gunshow commandos tell this person that they need this here Judge because it shoots honest-to-God shotshells out of a handgun and they can handle the recoil if they're a man. So that person eagerly buys their compromise gun that does nothing well (save being the best handgun for shooting clay pigeons), learns bad habits by starting off on a gun with too much recoil, and relies on the misguided notion that this gun is a magic talisman that will instantly incapacitate any BG in their general vicinity.
One2gofst:Meanwhile said gunshow commando can go and talk that woman who is interested in her first handgun out of an easy to shoot autoloader in to "that nice little j-frame that will fit in your purse real easy." You know, the one with the heavy DA trigger pull, short sight radius, small grips and exceptionally light weight. Just as an setting up that new woman shooter with an Airweight J-frame, as so many love to do, is a disservice that is NOT going to help anyone, so is recommending a Judge for any new shooter.
TatuajeVI: One2gofst:The gunshow commandos tell this person that they need this here Judge because it shoots honest-to-God shotshells out of a handgun and they can handle the recoil if they're a man. So that person eagerly buys their compromise gun that does nothing well (save being the best handgun for shooting clay pigeons), learns bad habits by starting off on a gun with too much recoil, and relies on the misguided notion that this gun is a magic talisman that will instantly incapacitate any BG in their general vicinity. ha! so true! You forgot to add the "sure it's only $450, but I swear it's the highest quality! It's a revolver - it never fails!" Course, in my time working in a gunshop/range I saw nearly every Judge break that came in there. And no, my store did not sell Taurus, thank God. One2gofst:Meanwhile said gunshow commando can go and talk that woman who is interested in her first handgun out of an easy to shoot autoloader in to "that nice little j-frame that will fit in your purse real easy." You know, the one with the heavy DA trigger pull, short sight radius, small grips and exceptionally light weight. Just as an setting up that new woman shooter with an Airweight J-frame, as so many love to do, is a disservice that is NOT going to help anyone, so is recommending a Judge for any new shooter. I loved working at a gunshop - every woman that came through looking for a carry gun was told by their friend/relative/instructor to get "the 5 shot, lightweight revolver that will fit in my purse!" About half of them I'd talk out of it, for obvious reasons, but the other half would rent one and come back cursing at their friend/relative/instructor! "I hate to say it, but I told you so... get a Glock 26 and practice!"
