New Movement REALLY about Freedom?? Or just certain kinds?

Vulchor

bigjohn125

I really hate getting into the abortion arguement here. But, since you brought it up... A human life is a human life. Abortion is murder. Sorry if that hurts anyones feelings, but thats the truth. The reason that most conservatives are pro death penalty and anti abortion is this: the child/ fetus/ baby is inocent whereas the person on death row has been convicted of a terrible crime and his peers have sentinced him to death. Making abortion illegal is no more intrusive than making murder illegal. I fail to see how anyone who has children could be pro abortion on any level. I also realize that trying to change someone's mind on this is about as effective as trying to change someone's mind about gun laws. People will change their minds if/ when they hear their 6 week old fetus heart beat.

Vulchor

We are discussing a fetus here vs a living human...as definition already decided by our higest courts. Also, this seems more like a religious or moral matter---and I did not think our govt job was to regulate these...as they already seem to regulate enough of our lives. The fetus is in the womans body..which she is free to do with as she wants. A person who is murdered is their own being and sufficient to meet own needs....and in most cases of abortion, not more than a nearly microscopic grouping of cells. Also, the 6 weak heart beat is another emotional issue, not one that deals with the law or a persons freedom. I cannot say that destroying a small group of cells should be a crime when the cells is the result of incest and/or rape---there seems to be only one crime there. Unless we begin advocating that rape victim to be arrested for aborting her rape fetus...I think most people would have a hard time sentencing that person.

fla-gypsy

Vulchor I am not going to get into a big debate about whether it should be legal or not but I am going to state my positon on this and it is most assuredly driven by my religious convictions. Life begins at conception for me. It is that simple. I don't have to create timelines on when it is just cells or human life. I find it interesting that if you injure a pregnant woman and the "fetus" (as the pro abortion crowd call it) dies, muder charges can be forthcoming, but a doctor who does late term abortions can literally kill a child he is removing and we call it a medical issue/decision. There is a great disconnect in those extremes that each of us must come to terms with somehow. There is no congress that can outlaw abortion completely because there is already legal precedent allowing it so this really is not an issue. Also, I do believe Govt interferes in all of our lives too much already. Additionally this issue as all issues not specifically appointed in the US Constitution to the Federal Govt should be left to the states to decide. The Federal Govt has absolutely no stake or mandate to act in this case. This is clearly a 10th amendment issue in my opinion.

Vulchor

Fair enough gypsy and I agree with a great deal of what you said.....But you are saying you believe that a woman should (at least morally) keep the child...no matter what? What if it was to be gentically found to have terrible issues, or even more so if it were a 13 year old girl raped by her father? Not trying to be a smart@ss or rude, I am just trying to understand if thats how you feel and moreso the mentality behind that. I respect your view, just curious.

laker1963

Krieg

pnaylon

fla-gypsy

Vulchor:

Fair enough gypsy and I agree with a great deal of what you said.....But you are saying you believe that a woman should (at least morally) keep the child...no matter what? What if it was to be gentically found to have terrible issues, or even more so if it were a 13 year old girl raped by her father? Not trying to be a smart@ss or rude, I am just trying to understand if thats how you feel and moreso the mentality behind that. I respect your view, just curious.

I only stated my unambigious position on when life begins based on my religious convictions, that the Federal Govt has no jurisdiction in a state issue, and that the taking of life is much too easy in some circumstances when we call it a medical procedure. I have not offered any position on what exceptions should exist if there was a hypothetical prohibition on abortion, which will never happen due to legal precedent.

Hays

fla-gypsy

Vulchor

Vulchor

I have thought of that side too Hays and pondered it many times. I agree with you I do believe, the man should have some right it most circumstances. That said, I do understand the difficulty with that and under what circumstances the man has the right to say. Not to mention how to ensure the female doesnt do anything to deliberately jeopardize the unborn. Very deep issue to thimk about.

mrpillow

Pro choice, 100%.

phobicsquirrel

sightunseen

cabinetmaker

I think its a state's rights issue, not federal.

kuzi16

Vulchor

Agreed totally Kuz...and a little "Death Wish" style justice may be in order as well.

TatuajeVI

Vulchor

Tats...I have 2 kids and ultras with both.....even one 3D one. My wife said the same thing, asking how I could say what I do based on seeing this. My answer for her and here I guess is simple and that is the life I saw was one our love together and something we wanted----not something that was done by force, misery, anger, or control. I dont think the rape victim should have to have any ultrasound if she chooses not and while I agree it is very moving and touching to see----may not feel the same to a woman who knows that is genetically 50% of the man who abused her.

TatuajeVI

TatuajeVI

Also, still would love to see the statements/etc where Palin/etc specifically state they want abortion banned in the instance of rape/incest.