All is lost? Suggestions please.

havanaal

I am a shareholder of a corp that manages commercial properties. There has been tremendous pressure to make these properties smoke free, but I have always made an impassioned appeal to the Board not to go that route, for a number of reasons. But support is growing for a smoking ban, and I may not be able to stem the tide. So I may find myself in the position of ordering people not to smoke, and devising a system of threats, warnings and fines to enforce company policy. Of course, I could refuse to go along, but that would jeopardize my standing in the company. And I can't just quit in protest and walk away, because I've got too much invested. By the way, for those here who are convinced "political corrrectness" and smoking restrictions are part of a liberal agenda, know that these are lifelong Republicans ramming this through. Any suggestions?

Nick2021

havanaal:

I am a shareholder of a corp that manages commercial properties. There has been tremendous pressure to make these properties smoke free, but I have always made an impassioned appeal to the Board not to go that route, for a number of reasons. But support is growing for a smoking ban, and I may not be able to stem the tide. So I may find myself in the position of ordering people not to smoke, and devising a system of threats, warnings and fines to enforce company policy. Of course, I could refuse to go along, but that would jeopardize my standing in the company. And I can't just quit in protest and walk away, because I've got too much invested. By the way, for those here who are convinced "political corrrectness" and smoking restrictions are part of a liberal agenda, know that these are lifelong Republicans ramming this through. Any suggestions?

Smoke free inside or outside or both?

PuroFreak

Just because someone is a Republican doesn't mean they don't support liberal ideas like smoking bans... My are present exhibit A.



And exhibit B.

LOL

ShotgunJohn

PuroFreak:

Just because someone is a Republican doesn't mean they don't support liberal ideas like smoking bans... My are present exhibit A.



And exhibit B.

LOL

Just your typical RINOs (Republican in name only)

Russ55

What about a push to make them alcohol free as well? Hell, why stop there. Push to make them sex free too. Oh, and fun too. Let's ban that. Serious business only please.

Edit: That wasn't very constructive. Sorry.

Joeyjoe21_8

I look at it as a business standpoint...one way, you smoke so its hard for you to get involved with it...other ways its a business so you have to run it so you make a profit and keep a business moving as usual.....if i were you, and my company wanted to push banning smoking....I go along with it....simply cuz no one wants to be unemployed at this point and time and i agree...lol

PuroFreak

Yea, a private business making their own choice to ban or allow smoking is the way it should be done. A business banning smoking I can handle because then if I want, I can chose not to do business with them. When the government does it that's another story. Then you have the will of the government being forced upon a business and making choices that could impact them negatively.

kuzi16

havanaal:

I am a shareholder of a corp that manages commercial properties. There has been tremendous pressure to make these properties smoke free, but I have always made an impassioned appeal to the Board not to go that route, for a number of reasons. But support is growing for a smoking ban, and I may not be able to stem the tide. So I may find myself in the position of ordering people not to smoke, and devising a system of threats, warnings and fines to enforce company policy. Of course, I could refuse to go along, but that would jeopardize my standing in the company. And I can't just quit in protest and walk away, because I've got too much invested.

can you sell your part of the company to others involved? it wouldnt be "walking away" and you may at least break even.

maybe another option i would suggest is writing each of the partners a letter explaining your position about individual rights and how the company's place is to take care of properties not to decide how others should run their business.

since im not to involved im not sure if this is good advice or not.

havanaal:

By the way, for those here who are convinced "political corrrectness" and smoking restrictions are part of a liberal agenda, know that these are lifelong Republicans ramming this through. Any suggestions?

without trying to get political, the republicans and democrats are both guilty of trying to dominate aspects of our lives. they may be very different aspects but any time that anyone tries to impede freedom i will oppose it.

in this situation, it is not the government that is imposing a rule, rather it is a private business. i have a hard time making the argument that it would be "wrong" for you to ban smoking because you and your collective have a right to run the business as you all see fit (providing you dont infringe on the rights of others of course) if you chose to go non-smoking on your own free will for business reasons, i see nothing wrong with that. you run it, you make the rules. if they dont like it, they can do business elsewhere.

however there is a very good argument that there is something wrong with going against your own personal beliefs.
i am sorry to say that i have a hard time seeing an easy way out of this.

i wish i could give you better advice.

xmacro

What's the target audience for these properties? If it's families, there's really no way you're gonna win that argument; but if the properties are being developed for single adults, or older adults who's kids have left, you can make the case that enabling a smoking option would draw in people who would otherwise be turned away.

JCizzle

Just my $.02: I think you should treat this as a business decision and what will be best for business (like others have mentioned). I would'nt beat yourself up too much if you have to make the commercial properties smoke-free. If I took a job and was told that you could not smoke, I would accept it as company rules. My last job was like that, no smoking at all on company property. The job I have now they don't care if you smoke. I also don't think employees would react too negatively to the smoking ban; I'd like to think most people understand that business is business.

KCW

I own a Contract Cleaning Company. This is inevitable. I'm surprised it hasn't happened to you sooner. I can't offer any advice to try to stop it. All I can say is, as long as "Green" & "I.A.Q" (Indoor Air Quality) are top "issues" in our Industry, this will just continue. Entire towns/cities are doing it in their "Public Facilities" and urging Private Property Owners to do the same..

havanaal

Yes KCW, it is surprising we've been about to hold out this long. It's only because I've put all my political capital and reputation on the line. The argument that has worked the best is saying the ban (outdoor AND indoor btw) will generate too much ill will to enforce. I say this because smoking is already popular, and the outdoor smoking areas are used every day, by lots of people who work there. The last time I confronted this--exactly one year ago--someone said "Tough, we'll start fining them. Then they'll get the message in a hurry!" To which I replied "Great! We invite people to lease space on out properties, then we become adversarial "smoking police", and become yet another politically correct regulator of their lives! What they need from us is good will, a smile, a thank you for being there. NOT arguments, excuses, fines etc." Well that carried the day last year. I am getting very tired of this...

KCW

havanaal:

Yes KCW, it is surprising we've been about to hold out this long. It's only because I've put all my political capital and reputation on the line. The argument that has worked the best is saying the ban (outdoor AND indoor btw) will generate too much ill will to enforce. I say this because smoking is already popular, and the outdoor smoking areas are used every day, by lots of people who work there. The last time I confronted this--exactly one year ago--someone said "Tough, we'll start fining them. Then they'll get the message in a hurry!" To which I replied "Great! We invite people to lease space on out properties, then we become adversarial "smoking police", and become yet another politically correct regulator of their lives! What they need from us is good will, a smile, a thank you for being there. NOT arguments, excuses, fines etc." Well that carried the day last year. I am getting very tired of this...

I think thats your best argument in a time when most square footage is vacant. Let the (Lease paying) tenants decide. Take a survey.

havanaal

That is a great idea KCW! The only problem we might run into is that the largest tenant is an insurance claims office, whose management has decreed itself a smoke free company (whatever that means). In other words, their management is certain to come down in favor of a smoking ban, even though I know several of their employees smoke anyway.

KCW

havanaal:

That is a great idea KCW! The only problem we might run into is that the largest tenant is an insurance claims office, whose management has decreed itself a smoke free company (whatever that means). In other words, their management is certain to come down in favor of a smoking ban, even though I know several of their employees smoke anyway.

All of my Property Managers have a No Smoking policy in all of their buildings. There are recepticles in certain designated smoking areas outside (usually). It's the norm nowadays.

gmill880

havanaal:

I am a shareholder of a corp that manages commercial properties. There has been tremendous pressure to make these properties smoke free, but I have always made an impassioned appeal to the Board not to go that route, for a number of reasons. But support is growing for a smoking ban, and I may not be able to stem the tide. So I may find myself in the position of ordering people not to smoke, and devising a system of threats, warnings and fines to enforce company policy. Of course, I could refuse to go along, but that would jeopardize my standing in the company. And I can't just quit in protest and walk away, because I've got too much invested. By the way, for those here who are convinced "political corrrectness" and smoking restrictions are part of a liberal agenda, know that these are lifelong Republicans ramming this through. Any suggestions?

It would seem to me as a shareholder you could abstain from voting based on your personal beliefs. If you are successful in not voting then it is unlikly you would be forced into the other issues of ordering people to stop smoking and devising enforcement tecniques. You are not refusing to go along, just removing yourself as a biased prejudiced shareholder. I am assuming your board would want any vote before it on any subject to be a fair impartial vote based on the facts before it and you clearly cannot accomodate them on this matter. This solution should not jeopardize your standing in the company or put your investment at risk but still allow you to maintain your integrity with regards to your duties as a shareholder .

havanaal

Would be true gmill880, except for the fact that one of my roles in the company is to oversee building security, who will be charged with enforcing any future outdoor smoking ban. So this directly affects me, and there's no incentive to abstain.

Amos Umwhat

I wish I could think of constructive approaches to your specific problem. What I can say, is that whenever I stay in a Hotel that provides smoking, I send a letter to the management and corporation thanking them for continuing the time-honored American tradition of allowing adults to make their own decisions about their lifestyles, and for providing lodging for me without forcing nanny-state authoritarian ideals on me. I encourage all the BOTL's to do likewise whenever possible. We can't be heard if we're not talking.

bearb

Here in Ontario, smoking is banned anywhere on 'public property' (i.e. inside and out), and is a $301 fine for violation. I teach high school, and of course kids & staff smoke..so they just go to a small piece of property @ the street and smoke there. Right in the public view...kinda defeats the purpose, as there is also a bus shelter there, almost like a fish bowl -at hospitals (which are public, not private) patients can often be seen outside the front doors in their robes with a cig going...never seen a cigar though...hmmm~