We were un-popular before President Bush even took office. The reason we aren't popular is because we are the big dogs on the block.
That is in part true, of course. But not in the absolute sense in which you state it. As every poll of worldwide opinion has indicated, America's image in the world has declined due to Bush policies.
PuroFreak:
I work for a living and am in no way rich, but the tax cuts DID help me. They helped me be able to pay my bills more easily. If you think because of the tax cuts we are all supposed to be able to go out and buy new cars then no, thats not going to happen. The tax cuts did help ease the burden on tax payers as a whole. Allowed us to spend more money and put back into the economy which did help our entire country.
So in the short-term sense, yes, tax cuts -- or, if you're middle-class, I think you really mean the tax rebate (I know Bush's tax rate cuts certainly didn't make it down to my bracket, anyway) -- did help. Over the longer-term, however, look at the debt his tax policy has left us with. Bush's problem was that he tried to have his cake and eat it, too; he tried to have guns and butter . . . and an expensive tax cut. His administration will leave office having spent a huge amount of money, and paid for none of it.
Essentially, he pursued Keynesian fiscal policy for almost 8 years. Applied as it was intended, I have no problem with Keynesian fiscal policy. In fact, I favor it. The problem is, Bush didn't apply it as it was intended.
If the next administration -- whoever ends up leading it -- pursues the same spend-like-crazy and cut taxes policy, they're going to produce some good growth numbers, too. Until China stops buying our debt, that is. And then we're Iceland.
I agree in a way to you. The tax cuts did help the people, but you are right, he DID spend way to much money. I believe we need to chop spending down to next to nothing. President Bush didn't do that, and there were a lot of ways he could have. The shocking part to me is that people think Sen Obama is the answer. Bush was half right... but Obama wants to go the complete opposite direction with higher taxes and more spending. That to me is a move in the wrong direction when it comes to fixing our country.
You can act as if these campaign "proposals" are policy
I'm pretty sure I didn't do any such thing. I said, as is clear in your quote of my comment, it was the plan he had run on. That's all it is. Iffy as that is, it's a good deal more than what I'm hearing from critics, which are bald assertions that "Obama will raise taxes." The basis for the claim seems to be little more than an a priori political commitment to "Democrats raise taxes" as an immutable law of the universe.
You have at least provided something more than the bald assertion. You've referred to interviews you've seen or heard. I follow politics pretty closely, but I haven't seen/heard the interviews you're talking about. Can you provide links? I'd be interested in reading the transcripts.
Luko:
And it's not really whining per se, as it is a deep, deep, deep dissatisfaction with how my tax dollars are being spent. So yead, I'll complain they are too high when they're being so badly misspent. You may be flush, but some of us - not so much. I think that when a third of my and my wife's income goes to the government, we have a right to expect that it is put to good use. And it's not.
ISTM your complaint, Luko, is quite different from Puro's. Puro objects to the taxes, per se. You don't mind paying taxes at the rate you pay them, per se; you just don't like how the money is used.
Once again this is where we disagree on economic ideology. I beleive that if we cut taxes AND spending, it would great improve the economy. Leave more money in the hands of the people and they will put it back into the economy and make it stronger. Spend more money, create more jobs...etc...etc... Also as I have said before, I do not agree with President Bush's spending and in the case of Reagan, it was essential for us to increase defense spending in order to win the Cold War, and it worked.
You can act as if these campaign "proposals" are policy
I'm pretty sure I didn't do any such thing. I said, as is clear in your quote of my comment, it was the plan he had run on. That's all it is. Iffy as that is, it's a good deal more than what I'm hearing from critics, which are bald assertions that "Obama will raise taxes." The basis for the claim seems to be little more than an a priori political commitment to "Democrats raise taxes" as an immutable law of the universe.
You have at least provided something more than the bald assertion. You've referred to interviews you've seen or heard. I follow politics pretty closely, but I haven't seen/heard the interviews you're talking about. Can you provide links? I'd be interested in reading the transcripts.
Luko:
And it's not really whining per se, as it is a deep, deep, deep dissatisfaction with how my tax dollars are being spent. So yead, I'll complain they are too high when they're being so badly misspent. You may be flush, but some of us - not so much. I think that when a third of my and my wife's income goes to the government, we have a right to expect that it is put to good use. And it's not.
ISTM your complaint, Luko, is quite different from Puro's. Puro objects to the taxes, per se. You don't mind paying taxes at the rate you pay them, per se; you just don't like how the money is used.
Must watch Steelers game. Yes, you did make it clear that it was his plan he had run on. I read it a little quickly. Yes, I can provide links, and will. Just gotta watch Byron Leftwich first.
You can act as if these campaign "proposals" are policy
I'm pretty sure I didn't do any such thing. I said, as is clear in your quote of my comment, it was the plan he had run on. That's all it is. Iffy as that is, it's a good deal more than what I'm hearing from critics, which are bald assertions that "Obama will raise taxes." The basis for the claim seems to be little more than an a priori political commitment to "Democrats raise taxes" as an immutable law of the universe.
You have at least provided something more than the bald assertion. You've referred to interviews you've seen or heard. I follow politics pretty closely, but I haven't seen/heard the interviews you're talking about. Can you provide links? I'd be interested in reading the transcripts.
Luko:
And it's not really whining per se, as it is a deep, deep, deep dissatisfaction with how my tax dollars are being spent. So yead, I'll complain they are too high when they're being so badly misspent. You may be flush, but some of us - not so much. I think that when a third of my and my wife's income goes to the government, we have a right to expect that it is put to good use. And it's not.
ISTM your complaint, Luko, is quite different from Puro's. Puro objects to the taxes, per se. You don't mind paying taxes at the rate you pay them, per se; you just don't like how the money is used.
No Urbi, you are mistaken, I never said I have a problem paying taxes, my complaint was that raising taxes is the wrong thing to do. Never, not ONCE have I said I don't want to pay any taxes. I think that the current tax rate is MORE than enough taken out of my check. Taxes are a neccesarry evil and I do understand that totally. I may be a little slow, but not a total tard! haha
You guys keep saying Obama's going to raise taxes, but the plan he has run on doesn't raise taxes, except on the very wealthy. I can't tell if y'all are claiming his proposal says something it doesn't say, or just saying his proposal is a lie. Which is it? (That's a sincere question. I really can't tell which claim is being made.)
he may not activly raise taxes on the middle class but when the bush tax cuts expire in 2010 they will go back up, effectively raising taxes. this means higher taxes on the upper class, higher taxes on the middle class, higher taxes on big business, higher taxes on successful small business (250K+). the only people not paying more taxes when he ends his first term than when he starts are the people that dont make enough to pay taxes.
urbino:
... I honestly don't understand all the whining that goes on about taxes being too high. I don't feel like my taxes are too high, and mine are almost certainly higher than the great majority of people's (I make quite a bit, I'm single, have no dependents, don't own a home, and don't take tax deductions for most of my charitable giving b/c I don't believe in that). If I had more money, could I find useful things to do with it? Sure. But I live quite comfortably, as it is. I've got more of just about everything than I need. So I just don't miss or begrudge the money that goes to taxes.
you can feel however you want about your tax status. If you feel that you dont pay enough then tell them you want to pay more. Im sure that you wont be turned down. However, it is not your right, or the right of anyone else, to tell ME what to do with MY money.
Comments