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I don't disagree with outlawing smoking in public areas, dining areas, and outdoor dining areas. I very much disagree with banning smoking in a cigar bar.

States have various laws regarding the licensing of a business for food and alcohol sales. I think smoking should be included in that process, and that dining and smoking licenses should be mutually exclusive. In other words, an establishment could choose to get a license to serve alcoholic beverages, and a license to allow on-premise smoking. But it could not get license to serve food and allow on-premise smoking.

This would allow the existence of bars that don't carry a restaurant business. Due to strange licensing laws in the Carolinas, you sometimes find a bar that is actually a "private club." This usually requires that you pay a $5 or so admission upon first visiting the establishment, and this fee covers a lifetime membership in the "club." These establishments aren't allowed to serve food. However, these establishments are always located adjacent to one or more restaurants (separate business entities)which will deliver food at no charge to the patrons at the private club. I think this setup works nicely.

Garen B

I really am nervous about the ban on smoking in dining areas and common areas in apartments in LA only because they are going to try to bring it to a state level and its already hard enough to try to find an area to enjoy a smoke when I visit my buddy in San Diego. Really the only place me and him have to smoke is the common area of his apartment building, there are a few cigar bars in the area but driving over to a cigar bar just to kick back and hang out with him is sometimes more trouble than its worth. I hope it doesn't get passed, but knowing California, it will be.

dutyje

You know, Garen, you bring up a good point regarding people in apartments. I've been thinking about this in the context of being a homeowner. I think it a legitimate case can be made against a smoking ban in that case. I think that leaving smoking to the discretion of the owner in the case of residences is a more viable solution. That includes smoking inside apartments as well as certain common areas. Dining establishments, drinking establishments, other public areas, and residences each have their own particular considerations. It is worthwhile to have a law that is specific in each of these cases.

j0z3r

This is so thoroughly over-reaching that it borders on ridiculous. Seems to me as though they are trying to take away any sort of freedom for adults to partake in a legal activity. I don't see how it can pass, but stranger things have happened.

Wafflebob

I personally see it as the government stripping citizens and private businesses of their rights. How can it be legal for a government to tell a bar or pub owner that he cannot smoke or allow others to smoke in his own establishment? It's not like anybody is forced to go there or that the business provides something that people need.

zoom6zoom

Virginia is another state that doesn't allow "bars". No alcohol sales without food sales.

Tumbler

http://www.usnews.com/blogs/capital-commerce/2008/10/23/would-obama-dems-kill-401k-plans.html

This is a pretty scary thought also...

dutyje

Tumbler:

http://www.usnews.com/blogs/capital-commerce/2008/10/23/would-obama-dems-kill-401k-plans.html

This is a pretty scary thought also...

Oh, it is so ON... time for a race... can I get my 401(k) balance down to zero faster than the government? I've already lost about 25%! I can do it!

Seriously, though.. that would never happen. They would soak trillions of dollars out of the stock market, causing the values of those securities to tank. Unemployment would spike to historic proportions.... although on the bright side -- if all that happens, a 3% per year increase would probably far outpace inflation

kuzi16

dutyje:
Tumbler:

http://www.usnews.com/blogs/capital-commerce/2008/10/23/would-obama-dems-kill-401k-plans.html

This is a pretty scary thought also...
Oh, it is so ON... time for a race... can I get my 401(k) balance down to zero faster than the government? I've already lost about 25%! I can do it!

Seriously, though.. that would never happen. They would soak trillions of dollars out of the stock market, causing the values of those securities to tank. Unemployment would spike to historic proportions.... although on the bright side -- if all that happens, a 3% per year increase would probably far outpace inflation

it WOULD soak trillions of dollars out of the stock market, causing the values of those securities to tank and all that you mentioned.

it could happen. ...i just think its unlikely.
the US has a very large percentage of uninformed/stupid/hard core socialists that would be ok with a government seizure of 401k funds. i worry that that percentage may be high enough that it will effect the rest of us in a damaging way.

BUT

that iosnt what this thread is about. If we want to debate this lets take it to the non cigar section. this thread was about the group "Cigar Rights of America"

idrivea9

I met with some friends this weekend in Phoenix at a place called Magnums off of 7th Street and Union Hills (north Phoenix). Phoenix has a smoking ban for indoors!!! But some how this place got thru it, as they have a full bar and a full walk in humi. I think its a crock that you can't have a "smoking" or "non-smoking" business license for a bar or restaurant.

Maybe more club type of places are needed. I know of one in Tempe, AZ that has locker type humi's to keep your sticks in...

Brian

kuzi16

i agree that lot letting a business decide what is best for them kinda sucks. I think that france has it right. I know thats scary... but hear me out...

France is smoke free... kinda. if you want a smoking section, you have to have that area separate from the non-smoking section. and by "separate" i mean "walled off"
there can be no mixing of air. Not only that, but the two areas must have a separate air ventilation system with fresh air draw only.

this keeps the smokers AND the non smokes happy. and what about the people working there? they cant be forced to work in the smoking section if they dont smoke. they can if they want to but they cant be forced to.

Wafflebob

kuzi16:
i agree that lot letting a business decide what is best for them kinda sucks. I think that france has it right. I know thats scary... but hear me out...

France is smoke free... kinda. if you want a smoking section, you have to have that area separate from the non-smoking section. and by "separate" i mean "walled off"
there can be no mixing of air. Not only that, but the two areas must have a separate air ventilation system with fresh air draw only.

this keeps the smokers AND the non smokes happy. and what about the people working there? they cant be forced to work in the smoking section if they dont smoke. they can if they want to but they cant be forced to.

The city I live in actually does this with their restaurants. Since they put the law in place most restaurants have become smoke free, but some still allow it. We even have a rather nice restaurant in town with a cigar lounge. I haven't gone to check it out yet, as the place is rather fancy, but I'm tempted.