It is my experience that those who are consumed by the "liberal/conservative debate" are unable to realize that they are being manipulated, and their attention is being diverted away from the realities of what is actually happening.
Apolitical forces in our economy like the AMA and the Insurance companies are behind the attack on the use of tobacco, and our elected "representatives" are being influenced by them. This has nothing to do with politics or ideology. It has everything to do with Insurance profits, and the AMA wanting to control individual behavior, and our "representatives" are listening to those with the most "speech"; ie MONEY.
the AMA is FAR from "apolitical" they clearly have some hand in politics. you even said that some representatives are influenced by them. that is political regardless of it is "right" or "left"
govt run? no, there is no bill or even talk of that, something like the VA. Single payer is not govt. run. It's like medicare, the govt just handles the money and cuts the over head like 25 - 30 percent. I know that's so bad.... Well if your an insurance exec who makes millions of people when they are sick and consistently raising premiums. Mine just went up again!!!!
wow... the government pays for it. when you control the money in a situation, you control that situation. not to mention the thousands of regulations. its not "run by the government" as in government doctors, but it is "run by the government" as in "you are going to do it the way the government wants or you arent going to do it at all"
in short, the government is trying to tell people how to live, work, and go about their daily lives through regulation. in the case of what this thread was originally about, they want to control the tobacco we use. in the case of the health care bill that according to you doesnt exist and nobody is talking about, it is how anybody practices medicine and pays for it.
oh...and as predicted many times on this forum, your health care premiums just went up again because the insurance companies have to build up revenue to now pay for all the people with preexisting conditions (something that insurance was not designed to cover). However, all you see is that people make a profit.
one more thing... the government isnt controlling overhead or costs. they are controlling prices. there is a HUGE difference. the health care bill does not solve the cost issue, just the out of pocket issue.
Paragraph two really pisses me off,, They are classifying 18 & 19 yo teenagers as children..Those same children are defending our country in far away lands.. They dont seem to care about the risk that may pose..F'n BS, dont get me started
It is my experience that those who are consumed by the "liberal/conservative debate" are unable to realize that they are being manipulated, and their attention is being diverted away from the realities of what is actually happening.
Apolitical forces in our economy like the AMA and the Insurance companies are behind the attack on the use of tobacco, and our elected "representatives" are being influenced by them. This has nothing to do with politics or ideology. It has everything to do with Insurance profits, and the AMA wanting to control individual behavior, and our "representatives" are listening to those with the most "speech"; ie MONEY.
the AMA is FAR from "apolitical" they clearly have some hand in politics. you even said that some representatives are influenced by them. that is political regardless of it is "right" or "left"
They are apolitical because they do not have a POLITICAL agenda. Insurance companies want to protect their profit. The AMA sees themselves as a "protector of public health". Neither organization is political, but both use the current political system to influence and shape legislation. They do this because they can.
The power and influence of money in our current political system cannot be underestimated or overstated. It is replacing the voices of individuals. That's why it has never been more important for individuals to unite and engage elected "representatives" as a group, otherwise, your voice will simply be drowned out.
It is my experience that those who are consumed by the "liberal/conservative debate" are unable to realize that they are being manipulated, and their attention is being diverted away from the realities of what is actually happening.
Apolitical forces in our economy like the AMA and the Insurance companies are behind the attack on the use of tobacco, and our elected "representatives" are being influenced by them. This has nothing to do with politics or ideology. It has everything to do with Insurance profits, and the AMA wanting to control individual behavior, and our "representatives" are listening to those with the most "speech"; ie MONEY.
the AMA is FAR from "apolitical" they clearly have some hand in politics. you even said that some representatives are influenced by them. that is political regardless of it is "right" or "left"
They are apolitical because they do not have a POLITICAL agenda. Insurance companies want to protect their profit. The AMA sees themselves as a "protector of public health". Neither organization is political, but both use the current political system to influence and shape legislation. They do this because they can.
The power and influence of money in our current political system cannot be underestimated or overstated. It is replacing the voices of individuals. That's why it has never been more important for individuals to unite and engage elected "representatives" as a group, otherwise, your voice will simply be drowned out.
i agree with what you just said there. they are not political in a right or left sense, but more in a "we have a set of goals that we want to see happen and are willing to try and corrupt politicians with money" kinda way.
whats the old saying? when we legislate what can be bought and sold, the first thing to be bought and sold are legislators.
Paragraph two really pisses me off,, They are classifying 18 & 19 yo teenagers as children..Those same children are defending our country in far away lands.. They dont seem to care about the risk that may pose..F'n BS, dont get me started
what really pisses me off is that they dont understand that it is MY BODY and i can do to it as i please providing i dont violate the rights of others. if i wanna ruin my life by quitting my job, or breaking my own legs, gouging my own eyes out, eating rat poison or smoking cigars, i should be allowed to as long as i dont violate the rights of others. my life, my health, and my decisions are MINE not the governments.
Paragraph two really pisses me off,, They are classifying 18 & 19 yo teenagers as children..Those same children are defending our country in far away lands.. They dont seem to care about the risk that may pose..F'n BS, dont get me started
what really pisses me off is that they dont understand that it is MY BODY and i can do to it as i please providing i dont violate the rights of others. if i wanna ruin my life by quitting my job, or breaking my own legs, gouging my own eyes out, eating rat poison or smoking cigars, i should be allowed to as long as i dont violate the rights of others. my life, my health, and my decisions are MINE not the governments.
Like it or not, agree with it or not, the "drug war" has forever altered the concept of where the individual's right to persue happiness ends and where the governments right to define the limits of personal freedom begins. What irks me is that legislators are so quick to decide for me how I will live in the name of "public safety". As you say, if I'm not interfering with anyone else’s life, I don't see the "threat" to public safety that the enjoyment of premium ciqars poses. In 1975 I said that if the idea of allowing the government to decide how individuals could behave in their own homes prevailed, then it would only be a matter of time before the drug war would be extended to tobacco users.
It is my experience that those who are consumed by the "liberal/conservative debate" are unable to realize that they are being manipulated, and their attention is being diverted away from the realities of what is actually happening.
Apolitical forces in our economy like the AMA and the Insurance companies are behind the attack on the use of tobacco, and our elected "representatives" are being influenced by them. This has nothing to do with politics or ideology. It has everything to do with Insurance profits, and the AMA wanting to control individual behavior, and our "representatives" are listening to those with the most "speech"; ie MONEY.
the AMA is FAR from "apolitical" they clearly have some hand in politics. you even said that some representatives are influenced by them. that is political regardless of it is "right" or "left"
They are apolitical because they do not have a POLITICAL agenda. Insurance companies want to protect their profit. The AMA sees themselves as a "protector of public health". Neither organization is political, but both use the current political system to influence and shape legislation. They do this because they can.
The power and influence of money in our current political system cannot be underestimated or overstated. It is replacing the voices of individuals. That's why it has never been more important for individuals to unite and engage elected "representatives" as a group, otherwise, your voice will simply be drowned out.
i agree with what you just said there. they are not political in a right or left sense, but more in a "we have a set of goals that we want to see happen and are willing to try and corrupt politicians with money" kinda way.
whats the old saying? when we legislate what can be bought and sold, the first thing to be bought and sold are legislators.
"...i agree with what you just said there. they are not political in a right or left sense, but more in a "we have a set of goals that we want to see happen and are willing to try and corrupt politicians with money" kinda way..."
The current political system, and the influence of money on the legislative process allows large organizations and wealthy individuals to REPLACE the voices of individuals of modest means. Congress represents those who can help them the most financially, not those who voted for them and put them in office.
In essence, the concept that money is speech has re-defined citizenship. Our government was designed to allow individual citizens to be represented by their elected political leaders. Now, individuals are more often than not, considered to be mere consumers, while those with money are afforded the rights of representation formerly reserved for citizens.
That's why cigar smokers must unite, or we will never be heard.
Got my 2 cigars from CRA yesterday. They each had a second band on them from the CRA.
Also got a positive reply back from Senator (Vitter). This from his letter:
As you know, the FDA has published notices indicating its intention to regulate premium cigars under the Tobacco Act, which primarily targeted cigarettes. Cigars are considered tobacco products under this law, but the FDA must first issue a regulation subjecting cigars to its requirements. To stop these actions by the FDA, the Traditional Cigar Manufacturing and Small Business Jobs Prevention Act would exempt premium cigars from the FDA's authority under the Tobacco Act.
For those who haven't joined CRA, I think it's time.
All Republicans on this forum should write Senator Mitch McConnell of KY and tell him what you think. He does not support us.
I want to so badly, but as pathetic as this sounds I just flat don't have the funding. Between Xmas for the forum, the family, and my wife, I just can't swing that price tag, and it is NOT a lare price tag at that. But I have been doing all the emails and everything else trying my best to cut this bill at the knees!
For those who haven't joined CRA, I think it's time.
All Republicans on this forum should write Senator Mitch McConnell of KY and tell him what you think. He does not support us.
I want to so badly, but as pathetic as this sounds I just flat don't have the funding. Between Xmas for the forum, the family, and my wife, I just can't swing that price tag, and it is NOT a lare price tag at that. But I have been doing all the emails and everything else trying my best to cut this bill at the knees!
Maybe you could write your Representatives and Senators, and Mitch Mcconnell. These guys have just got to hear from us.
For those who haven't joined CRA, I think it's time.
All Republicans on this forum should write Senator Mitch McConnell of KY and tell him what you think. He does not support us.
I want to so badly, but as pathetic as this sounds I just flat don't have the funding. Between Xmas for the forum, the family, and my wife, I just can't swing that price tag, and it is NOT a lare price tag at that. But I have been doing all the emails and everything else trying my best to cut this bill at the knees!
Maybe you could write your Representatives and Senators, and Mitch Mcconnell. These guys have just got to hear from us.
Happy to do so, best way to get the correct addy to send said letters to would be via the net?
For those who haven't joined CRA, I think it's time.
All Republicans on this forum should write Senator Mitch McConnell of KY and tell him what you think. He does not support us.
I want to so badly, but as pathetic as this sounds I just flat don't have the funding. Between Xmas for the forum, the family, and my wife, I just can't swing that price tag, and it is NOT a lare price tag at that. But I have been doing all the emails and everything else trying my best to cut this bill at the knees!
Maybe you could write your Representatives and Senators, and Mitch Mcconnell. These guys have just got to hear from us.
Happy to do so, best way to get the correct addy to send said letters to would be via the net?
Yep. Just type 'em in a google search, and their web page and contact information will come up. Be warned, though, if you write Rand Paul, you'll end up with a sh..load of spam comming into your mailbox.
govt run? no, there is no bill or even talk of that, something like the VA. Single payer is not govt. run. It's like medicare, the govt just handles the money and cuts the over head like 25 - 30 percent. I know that's so bad.... Well if your an insurance exec who makes millions of people when they are sick and consistently raising premiums. Mine just went up again!!!!
wow... the government pays for it. when you control the money in a situation, you control that situation. not to mention the thousands of regulations. its not "run by the government" as in government doctors, but it is "run by the government" as in "you are going to do it the way the government wants or you arent going to do it at all"
in short, the government is trying to tell people how to live, work, and go about their daily lives through regulation. in the case of what this thread was originally about, they want to control the tobacco we use. in the case of the health care bill that according to you doesnt exist and nobody is talking about, it is how anybody practices medicine and pays for it.
oh...and as predicted many times on this forum, your health care premiums just went up again because the insurance companies have to build up revenue to now pay for all the people with preexisting conditions (something that insurance was not designed to cover). However, all you see is that people make a profit.
one more thing... the government isnt controlling overhead or costs. they are controlling prices. there is a HUGE difference. the health care bill does not solve the cost issue, just the out of pocket issue.
That's pretty much what the PR campaign says. Tobacco use as of right now isn't much of a govt concern however when you look into it, yes tobacco does cost both the govt and private world money. People get cancer, they get care and at times have to leave work. So it hits both. Should govt outlaw tobacco? No, but I do think that there should be an incentive not to take it. Like with liquor the same thing. Not saying they should keep taxing the hell out of it but both do cause a negative effect.
The idea behind this new crap legislation is stupid. One could say that soda and candy is bad for people and sweet thus it attract children and leads to obesity. Which is true but I don't see the govt cracking down on it. I agree that too much regulation is bad however you saying that the reason health care premiums are going up is because the health insurers have too, is just false. There is a reason why this country is the only one with our health care costs, lower outcomes and a for profit system not checked. And it's not because it works, cause it doesn't. A single payer system like medicare would fix a lot of problems. Sure maybe a 2ndary plan would work but as it is right now this system doesn't.
I have the VA and many in my family have medicare (not d) and we all love it. I like the VA and it's much easier to be seen than my wife who uses a private health insurance company. Mine is free, and hers costs us like 250 dollars a month. We are getting screwed with her plan and it's supposedly a good one.
...and I'm sure down the line there will be stricter laws on foods as well. Obesity is a huge problem in this country and it stems from many issues. Given the amount of money that is spent on just weed in this country I'm surprised that more hasn't been done to tobacco. It's all messed up.
I think the time spent on this bill should be allocated to Obesity and making foods healthier (since everyone eats food).
i think no time should be spent on this bill because nobody should ever tell me what i do or put into myself weather it be tobacco, food, drugs, or anything else that i cant think of. if i chose to do something to me that does not infringe on the rights of anyone else, who is anyone to tell me no? they do not own my body. I do. If i want to get fat, i should be able to. if i want to get high, as long as i dont infringe on others rights, i should be able to. if i want to smoke a cigar in my own house on my own time after a hard day at work, i should be able to. no questions asked. i dont need someone to look out for me. im a grown ass man, and i live in a country that at one point was free.
I think the time spent on this bill should be allocated to Obesity and making foods healthier (since everyone eats food).
i think no time should be spent on this bill because nobody should ever tell me what i do or put into myself weather it be tobacco, food, drugs, or anything else that i cant think of. if i chose to do something to me that does not infringe on the rights of anyone else, who is anyone to tell me no? they do not own my body. I do. If i want to get fat, i should be able to. if i want to get high, as long as i dont infringe on others rights, i should be able to. if i want to smoke a cigar in my own house on my own time after a hard day at work, i should be able to. no questions asked. i dont need someone to look out for me. im a grown ass man, and i live in a country that at one point was free.
THIS! I completely agree. And think of all the money and time that the government could save by allowing us to live our lives.
Comments
they clearly have some hand in politics.
you even said that some representatives are influenced by them.
that is political regardless of it is "right" or "left"
in short, the government is trying to tell people how to live, work, and go about their daily lives through regulation. in the case of what this thread was originally about, they want to control the tobacco we use. in the case of the health care bill that according to you doesnt exist and nobody is talking about, it is how anybody practices medicine and pays for it.
oh...and as predicted many times on this forum, your health care premiums just went up again because the insurance companies have to build up revenue to now pay for all the people with preexisting conditions (something that insurance was not designed to cover). However, all you see is that people make a profit.
one more thing... the government isnt controlling overhead or costs. they are controlling prices. there is a HUGE difference. the health care bill does not solve the cost issue, just the out of pocket issue.
The power and influence of money in our current political system cannot be underestimated or overstated. It is replacing the voices of individuals. That's why it has never been more important for individuals to unite and engage elected "representatives" as a group, otherwise, your voice will simply be drowned out.
whats the old saying?
when we legislate what can be bought and sold, the first thing to be bought and sold are legislators.
if i wanna ruin my life by quitting my job, or breaking my own legs, gouging my own eyes out, eating rat poison or smoking cigars, i should be allowed to as long as i dont violate the rights of others.
my life, my health, and my decisions are MINE not the governments.
I was riight.
The current political system, and the influence of money on the legislative process allows large organizations and wealthy individuals to REPLACE the voices of individuals of modest means. Congress represents those who can help them the most financially, not those who voted for them and put them in office.
In essence, the concept that money is speech has re-defined citizenship. Our government was designed to allow individual citizens to be represented by their elected political leaders. Now, individuals are more often than not, considered to be mere consumers, while those with money are afforded the rights of representation formerly reserved for citizens.
That's why cigar smokers must unite, or we will never be heard.
Also got a positive reply back from Senator (Vitter). This from his letter:
As you know, the FDA has published notices indicating its intention to regulate premium cigars under the Tobacco Act, which primarily targeted cigarettes. Cigars are considered tobacco products under this law, but the FDA must first issue a regulation subjecting cigars to its requirements. To stop these actions by the FDA, the Traditional Cigar Manufacturing and Small Business Jobs Prevention Act would exempt premium cigars from the FDA's authority under the Tobacco Act.
The idea behind this new crap legislation is stupid. One could say that soda and candy is bad for people and sweet thus it attract children and leads to obesity. Which is true but I don't see the govt cracking down on it. I agree that too much regulation is bad however you saying that the reason health care premiums are going up is because the health insurers have too, is just false. There is a reason why this country is the only one with our health care costs, lower outcomes and a for profit system not checked. And it's not because it works, cause it doesn't. A single payer system like medicare would fix a lot of problems. Sure maybe a 2ndary plan would work but as it is right now this system doesn't.
I have the VA and many in my family have medicare (not d) and we all love it. I like the VA and it's much easier to be seen than my wife who uses a private health insurance company. Mine is free, and hers costs us like 250 dollars a month. We are getting screwed with her plan and it's supposedly a good one.
if i chose to do something to me that does not infringe on the rights of anyone else, who is anyone to tell me no? they do not own my body. I do. If i want to get fat, i should be able to.
if i want to get high, as long as i dont infringe on others rights, i should be able to. if i want to smoke a cigar in my own house on my own time after a hard day at work, i should be able to.
no questions asked.
i dont need someone to look out for me. im a grown ass man, and i live in a country that at one point was free.