More on smoking and rights

havanaal

I find it interesting the number of people here who think restrictions on smoking (especially cigarette smoking) are reasonable, or even necessary. I feel differently, mainly because I see rights as a more black and white issue. That is, I'm a dyed in the wool Libertarian who feels that taking away a right previously enjoyed for centuries is pretty damn serious. Having said that, here's a legitimate question: I purposely hang out in establishments that allow me to smoke. Lately they're getting harder to find, and I have retreated to the local Indian Reservation/Resort/Casinos where I can smoke virtually anywhere on the property. But as you might imagine there are many people out there who flat out hate the smell of cigar smoke, and make it clear they wish I would go away--I'm sure we're all familiar with the disgusting faces and waving hands. Now, in the old days, I would respect their wishes and go away. But because smokers are under the gun now, I entrench, and ignore them, as if to say "If you don't like the atmosphere, go to the other 99% of public areas around here that are smoke free!" I don't give an inch. Am I being a snob? Am I giving cigar smokers a bad name? How does one be considerate in an atmosphere like this?

Dude Love

I find the best reply is "but I'm smoking for the children!" The only thing SCHIP is good for: arguing with snobbish non-smokers.

gmill880

dutyje

When you have regulation that specifically creates areas that don't allow smoking, the non-smoker has a lot less leverage in requesting that smokers refrain in a smoking environment. Like you said, they can go to the other 99% of places that don't allow smoking. That is a side-effect of the law, and one that the non-smokers must learn to live with in the same way that smokers must live with the restrictions.

urbino

Dude Love:

The only thing SCHIP is good for: arguing with snobbish non-smokers.

Well, you know, that and providing health care for kids.

brc81

urbino:

Dude Love:

The only thing SCHIP is good for: arguing with snobbish non-smokers.

Well, you know, that and providing health care for kids.

We'll see about that once people quit smoking in droves. There won't be any money to pay for the kid's healthcare when less tax money is generated. They had an article in our local paper that since the passing of SCHIP local smoking cessation classes have seen a 400% spike in enrollment.

Rob1110

I'm one to completely agree with smoking bans in certain areas, but for small business owners such as bar owners and cigar shop owners and the occasional casino, I believe it should be up to the owner of the establishment to decide whether or not they want to allow smoking. Then, from there, it is up to the patrons of that establishment to decide whether or not they want to support that business. I know I wouldn't hang at bars that allowed smoking all the time. I go to a cigar bar knowing that I'm going to be in that environment and if I don't want to be exposed to smoke, I just won't go there. Keep in mind, I'm up here in Mass where government officials know much better what's good for me than I do. The smoking bans are getting worse and worse - as bad in Boston to go as far as giving cigar bars 5 years to close their doors.

Vidarien

urbino:

Dude Love:

The only thing SCHIP is good for: arguing with snobbish non-smokers.

Well, you know, that and providing health care for kids.

 

I dont know, the tax annoys me but...i guess i can live with paying an extra 5 or 6 bucks per 20 sticks  if it means a bunch of 6 year olds arent going to be sent up the creek if they get MRSA or something and their parents wont bankrupt themselves to take them in to the doc.

 

I mean with SCHIP, at least i know exactly where that tax is going.

Dude Love

phobicsquirrel

Vidarien:

urbino:

Dude Love:

The only thing SCHIP is good for: arguing with snobbish non-smokers.

Well, you know, that and providing health care for kids.

 

I dont know, the tax annoys me but...i guess i can live with paying an extra 5 or 6 bucks per 20 sticks  if it means a bunch of 6 year olds arent going to be sent up the creek if they get MRSA or something and their parents wont bankrupt themselves to take them in to the doc.

 

I mean with SCHIP, at least i know exactly where that tax is going.

I just don't share that opinion. Cigars are already taxed to hell and back. If anything the money should come from some where else. I don't see why this had to ever be an issue. seriously our govt really needs to take a look at what they are doing. Taxing everything shouldn't be the answer. It just pisses me off that's all.

phobicsquirrel

Rob1110:

I'm one to completely agree with smoking bans in certain areas, but for small business owners such as bar owners and cigar shop owners and the occasional casino, I believe it should be up to the owner of the establishment to decide whether or not they want to allow smoking. Then, from there, it is up to the patrons of that establishment to decide whether or not they want to support that business. I know I wouldn't hang at bars that allowed smoking all the time. I go to a cigar bar knowing that I'm going to be in that environment and if I don't want to be exposed to smoke, I just won't go there. Keep in mind, I'm up here in Mass where government officials know much better what's good for me than I do. The smoking bans are getting worse and worse - as bad in Boston to go as far as giving cigar bars 5 years to close their doors.

that is just F'd up. one would think that it could not lawfully be done. hopefully this is what will happen.

dutyje

brc81:

urbino:

Dude Love:

The only thing SCHIP is good for: arguing with snobbish non-smokers.

Well, you know, that and providing health care for kids.

We'll see about that once people quit smoking in droves. There won't be any money to pay for the kid's healthcare when less tax money is generated. They had an article in our local paper that since the passing of SCHIP local smoking cessation classes have seen a 400% spike in enrollment.

naturally.. it early in the year, and they're getting a resolution crowd. My wife works at the YMCA, and they call this time of the year "tourist season." You can come up with this statistic every year.

dutyje

phobicsquirrel:

Cigars are already taxed to hell and back.

No they're not. 5 cent cap per cigar... 5 cents.

dutyje

phobicsquirrel:

Rob1110:

I'm one to completely agree with smoking bans in certain areas, but for small business owners such as bar owners and cigar shop owners and the occasional casino, I believe it should be up to the owner of the establishment to decide whether or not they want to allow smoking. Then, from there, it is up to the patrons of that establishment to decide whether or not they want to support that business. I know I wouldn't hang at bars that allowed smoking all the time. I go to a cigar bar knowing that I'm going to be in that environment and if I don't want to be exposed to smoke, I just won't go there. Keep in mind, I'm up here in Mass where government officials know much better what's good for me than I do. The smoking bans are getting worse and worse - as bad in Boston to go as far as giving cigar bars 5 years to close their doors.

that is just F'd up. one would think that it could not lawfully be done. hopefully this is what will happen.

They aren't forcing the bar to close its doors. They are making it unlawful to smoke, thereby changing its business model. Still unfair, but one of the problems I have with the right these days is their tendency to overdramatize statements in order to make an impact. But then it's really just lying.

ScottU

kuzi16

Luko

Krieg

Vidarien:

urbino:

Dude Love:

The only thing SCHIP is good for: arguing with snobbish non-smokers.

Well, you know, that and providing health care for kids.

 

 

I mean with SCHIP, at least i know exactly where that tax is going.

like we know where Social Security is going...medicare....medicaide....oh yeah...I forgot, they spent all that money on pork.

rwheelwright

Dude Love

rwheelwright

kuzi16

rwheelwright:

This is just another form of control.

thats what its all about. it has nothing to do with revenue.

Smoke=Fire

kuzi16

phobicsquirrel

I'll go on record on saying obesity is more of a concern than smoking. fast food should be on the radar not smoking. fast food tax, not cigar tax!!! lol

gmill880

ScottU

phobicsquirrel:

I'll go on record on saying obesity is more of a concern than smoking. fast food should be on the radar not smoking. fast food tax, not cigar tax!!! lol

That's sadly true... Maybe if they raised the tax on fast food, people would quit that too... It would generate a helluva lot more money than cigars..

phobicsquirrel

gmill880

kuzi16

ScottU:

phobicsquirrel:

I'll go on record on saying obesity is more of a concern than smoking. fast food should be on the radar not smoking. fast food tax, not cigar tax!!! lol

That's sadly true... Maybe if they raised the tax on fast food, people would quit that too... It would generate a helluva lot more money than cigars..

its not about generating money. its about control.

kuzi16