Davidoff

Davidoff Has New Size and New Look For Puro d’Oro
"...Davidoff plans to release a sixth size in its Davidoff Puro d’Oro line next month called the Gigantes, and the new, fat size will debut a new band.
...the Gigantes (a 5 1/2-inch by 56-ring robusto) is matching current market trends that lean toward larger ring gauges."

One of the few companies that have seemed to be sticking with Cuban traditional sizes is finally making a cigar that i probably wont ever buy. I know, it will make them money given the market trends. I am still a bit disappointed to see it.

For most of its existence Davidoff has been making cigars that they can describe as "elegant" in flavor and appearance. they have been selling a lifestyle, not just a cigar.

are they starting to compromise their style to follow trends? why would Davidoff ever have to follow anyone?

in their defense, even Cuba has been bucking their own traditions: BHK56, Montecristo Eagle, PSP2, RyJ Wide Churchill to name a few. those are the ones coming out and if you look at the list of discontinued Cubans in the last 10-15 years almost none of them have a ring over 46.
maybe im just expecting too much out of Davidoff. i mean, im just a guy. they have no obligation to keep me (personally) happy.

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madurofan

This is a big break in tradition for Davidoff for certain but you shouldn't be surprised. As soon as they forced Henke to blend a Maduro (the trend they were chasing at the time) they had broken their tradition.

Then when they started to sell online, to me, that practically ended their mystique. It was no longer special to walk into a B&M and say "woah they carry white-label".

I still enjoy them but have lost a lot of the respect I once had for them, they did it their way ... this is no longer remotely true.

catfishbluezz

Is it just me....or am I the only one who never sees anyone smoke large ring gauges??? I never see anyone here swear by them, I never buy them over than Uzi and undercrown, and I rarely see one rated high. I read that epc is making a 64ga smoke to due to demand...who is demanding it???

Diamondog

Let me know when they start making Davidoff Cubans again

madurofan

catfishbluezz:
Is it just me....or am I the only one who never sees anyone smoke large ring gauges??? I never see anyone here swear by them, I never buy them over than Uzi and undercrown, and I rarely see one rated high. I read that epc is making a 64ga smoke to due to demand...who is demanding it???

I feel the same way. I rarely if ever see anyone smoking more than say 52rg ... But there are TONS of smokers we never see. The guys who come in buy a few and leave, they don't hang around the shop nor do they get on forums. I knew 3 - 5 years ago 60rgs were huge but I thought it was trending away from that.

Hopefully Svenson will chime in on this.

catfishbluezz

madurofan:
catfishbluezz:
Is it just me....or am I the only one who never sees anyone smoke large ring gauges??? I never see anyone here swear by them, I never buy them over than Uzi and undercrown, and I rarely see one rated high. I read that epc is making a 64ga smoke to due to demand...who is demanding it???
I feel the same way. I rarely if ever see anyone smoking more than say 52rg ... But there are TONS of smokers we never see. The guys who come in buy a few and leave, they don't hang around the shop nor do they get on forums. I knew 3 - 5 years ago 60rgs were huge but I thought it was trending away from that.

Hopefully Svenson will chime in on this.

X2....Alex? It also seems like the larger ring gauges are CONSTANTLY being blown out online... So my guess is this has to be coming from the B&M walk in customer thinking bigger is better... I have no clue though...in my two years, I've never been into them, find them a pain to burn, and other than Uzi/undercrown....always have blending issues and taste funky.

madurofan

catfishbluezz:
madurofan:
catfishbluezz:
Is it just me....or am I the only one who never sees anyone smoke large ring gauges??? I never see anyone here swear by them, I never buy them over than Uzi and undercrown, and I rarely see one rated high. I read that epc is making a 64ga smoke to due to demand...who is demanding it???
I feel the same way. I rarely if ever see anyone smoking more than say 52rg ... But there are TONS of smokers we never see. The guys who come in buy a few and leave, they don't hang around the shop nor do they get on forums. I knew 3 - 5 years ago 60rgs were huge but I thought it was trending away from that.

Hopefully Svenson will chime in on this.
X2....Alex? It also seems like the larger ring gauges are CONSTANTLY being blown out online... So my guess is this has to be coming from the B&M walk in customer thinking bigger is better... I have no clue though...in my two years, I've never been into them, find them a pain to burn, and other than Uzi/undercrown....always have blending issues and taste funky.

There are two reasons I don't care for them:

1. I usually don't have the time nor want to sit there for 3+ hours with a cigar.

2. They always seem washed out flavor wise, to me.

I get why people ESPECIALLY newbs like them.

1. It seems like you are getting the most for your money.

2. They burn a lot cooler, you don't have to take your time with them or worry about the cigar "biting" near as much.

Ken Light

The B&M I went to for a long time (before I moved away from it) had a guy that would ALWAYS push big RG's and generally huge cigars on everyone. He'd actually make you feel like less of a man for grabbing something robusto or smaller. Maybe he's typical of crappy B&M owners? I don't know about you guys, but we have LOTS of crappy B&M's in Jersey...

They are more user friendly, especially if the user can handle nicotine because they formerly or currently smoke cigarettes or smoke cigars very frequently. I do none of these, so I've learned how to smoke smaller vitolas.

As for Davidoff, the original purpose of this thread, I think if they can manage to do this and maintain their exceptionally high quality standards (from what I've heard, can't speak from experience), then I think that's a good thing. I think a great artist should be able to excel in all media, and cigar making/blending is no different. Along the same lines, as striving aficianados, should we not work to appreciate all forms of the art? If a great large RG cigar opens some minds to that form, then that's a great thing.

Or maybe it'll be pandering crap. That would bet terrible.

amz1301

Speaking of Davidoff...I was looking at these the other day. "My Father "Belicoso", made exclusively for the Davidoff New York stores." Does anyone have any info or experience with these ?

Russ55

It might not be a compromise. I don't care for fat ring gauges usually, but in this cigar, which is one of my favorites, I seem to enjoy the Magnifico the most. To me it has the best flavor and aroma of all the sizes. Looking forward to trying the new one.

Direwolf

I only had oneDavidoff so far and it was the silkiest feeling cigar I ever felt. Perfect construction and draw

kuzi16

madurofan:
This is a big break in tradition for Davidoff for certain but you shouldn't be surprised. As soon as they forced Henke to blend a Maduro (the trend they were chasing at the time) they had broken their tradition.

Then when they started to sell online, to me, that practically ended their mystique. It was no longer special to walk into a B&M and say "woah they carry white-label".

I still enjoy them but have lost a lot of the respect I once had for them, they did it their way ... this is no longer remotely true.

i dont think that selling on line is a break of tradition. thats just good business. forcing to blend a maduro however IS breaking tradition. but again not much more of break considering that at the time that Davidoff announced it would release a maduro, Cuba had announced the same thing. not to mention that the Davidoff maduro isnt a "true maduro" it is a sungrown Nicaraguan Cuban-seed “natural maduro” wrapper from the Jalapa Valley. so it just looks darker. i have a bit more difficult time calling this a break in tradition.

catfishbluezz:
Is it just me....or am I the only one who never sees anyone smoke large ring gauges??? I never see anyone here swear by them, I never buy them over than Uzi and undercrown, and I rarely see one rated high. I read that epc is making a 64ga smoke to due to demand...who is demanding it???

It is just you. a few months ago i took part in a poll that was on facebook started by Perdomo. the poll was simple. "what is your favorite size?" i was part of a very very small minority that said something under 50 (lonesdale). there were people that were posting things like "i never smoke anything uned 50" or "nothing under 55" or even just "60+"

you dont see people talking like that here because we are the uber nerds of the cigar world. the guys that have a few thousand posts on a forum are looking for the lanceros, coronas, and lonesdales. us cigar nerds on forums with massive post counts are a tiny minority in the overall community.

Ken Light:
The B&M I went to for a long time (before I moved away from it) had a guy that would ALWAYS push big RG's and generally huge cigars on everyone. He'd actually make you feel like less of a man for grabbing something robusto or smaller. Maybe he's typical of crappy B&M owners?

i remember when i was early in cigars i walked into a B&M and was looking for a cigar in a lonesdale and the guy looked at me and said, "you dont want that"

i responded, "uh.. yes i do"

when he started to tell me that i didnt want it again i interrupted him and said, "oh, you DONT want me to buy cigars here ever," and i walked out.

Ken Light:
As for Davidoff, the original purpose of this thread, I think if they can manage to do this and maintain their exceptionally high quality standards (from what I've heard, can't speak from experience), then I think that's a good thing. I think a great artist should be able to excel in all media, and cigar making/blending is no different. Along the same lines, as striving aficianados, should we not work to appreciate all forms of the art? If a great large RG cigar opens some minds to that form, then that's a great thing.

Or maybe it'll be pandering crap. That would bet terrible.

i dont think it will be crap. at least not yet. i see it more as a start to a potential slide to mediocrity. Davidoff has always made things the way they want. they have run their business for themselves. they set their standard. I feel the larger ring IS pandering. and when you pander, you move to mediocrity because you are no longer using your standards.

bigharpoon

For me it seems the standard for Davidoff is quality. If they can make a big rg cigar and keep their high quality are they compromising their standards or just trying to get in on a huge segment of demand in the market? As a business when you see low hanging fruit you're gonna try to grab it because if you don't someone else will.

I see people smoking big rg cigars everywhere. For most people I believe it's an aesthetic, the Tony Soprano look. They want to smoke a cigar, a REAL cigar (lol). I'm not holding anything against Davidoff for offering a wider range of vitolas as long as they keep their quality up.

madurofan

kuzi16:
madurofan:
This is a big break in tradition for Davidoff for certain but you shouldn't be surprised. As soon as they forced Henke to blend a Maduro (the trend they were chasing at the time) they had broken their tradition.

Then when they started to sell online, to me, that practically ended their mystique. It was no longer special to walk into a B&M and say "woah they carry white-label".

I still enjoy them but have lost a lot of the respect I once had for them, they did it their way ... this is no longer remotely true.
i dont think that selling on line is a break of tradition. thats just good business. forcing to blend a maduro however IS breaking tradition. but again not much more of break considering that at the time that Davidoff announced it would release a maduro, Cuba had announced the same thing. not to mention that the Davidoff maduro isnt a "true maduro" it is a sungrown Nicaraguan Cuban-seed “natural maduro” wrapper from the Jalapa Valley. so it just looks darker. i have a bit more difficult time calling this a break in tradition.

I was unaware of that, but it doesn't make me feel any better, as they are lying about what the cigar is. If it is as you describe it, that is not a maduro, its an oscuro. And no matter how you slice it, they were pandering to a trend.

I also STRONGLY disagree with everyone here saying it's smart business, or they have to follow the trends or someone else will. The brand is what sells Davidoff, especially the White label. You don't jeopardize that by breaking the tradition it is built upon. It may result it sales in the short term but in the long term they are devaluing the Davidoff name. Clothing lines are a great example of this, once you allow certain stores to carry your brand the value that name carries detoriates. Levi's actually fought numerous court battles to keep the Levi branded jeans out of Wal-Mart because they knew what it would do to the name. I'm not calling Ccom wal-mart but you get the idea.

Alex Svenson

catfishbluezz:
madurofan:
catfishbluezz:
Is it just me....or am I the only one who never sees anyone smoke large ring gauges??? I never see anyone here swear by them, I never buy them over than Uzi and undercrown, and I rarely see one rated high. I read that epc is making a 64ga smoke to due to demand...who is demanding it???
I feel the same way. I rarely if ever see anyone smoking more than say 52rg ... But there are TONS of smokers we never see. The guys who come in buy a few and leave, they don't hang around the shop nor do they get on forums. I knew 3 - 5 years ago 60rgs were huge but I thought it was trending away from that.

Hopefully Svenson will chime in on this.
X2....Alex? It also seems like the larger ring gauges are CONSTANTLY being blown out online... So my guess is this has to be coming from the B&M walk in customer thinking bigger is better... I have no clue though...in my two years, I've never been into them, find them a pain to burn, and other than Uzi/undercrown....always have blending issues and taste funky.

Big rings are still huge sellers. Personally I don't care for anything over 54 at all and I love 42 to 48. Remember what you see is not indicative of what sells. You don't see many people smoke acid but that is the third best selling long filler blend in the US. Smokers unite! We need to start a corona trend. I love coronas.

madurofan

Alex Svenson:
catfishbluezz:
madurofan:
catfishbluezz:
Is it just me....or am I the only one who never sees anyone smoke large ring gauges??? I never see anyone here swear by them, I never buy them over than Uzi and undercrown, and I rarely see one rated high. I read that epc is making a 64ga smoke to due to demand...who is demanding it???
I feel the same way. I rarely if ever see anyone smoking more than say 52rg ... But there are TONS of smokers we never see. The guys who come in buy a few and leave, they don't hang around the shop nor do they get on forums. I knew 3 - 5 years ago 60rgs were huge but I thought it was trending away from that.

Hopefully Svenson will chime in on this.
X2....Alex? It also seems like the larger ring gauges are CONSTANTLY being blown out online... So my guess is this has to be coming from the B&M walk in customer thinking bigger is better... I have no clue though...in my two years, I've never been into them, find them a pain to burn, and other than Uzi/undercrown....always have blending issues and taste funky.
Big rings are still huge sellers. Personally I don't care for anything over 54 at all and I love 42 to 48. Remember what you see is not indicative of what sells. You don't see many people smoke acid but that is the third best selling long filler blend in the US. Smokers unite! We need to start a corona trend. I love coronas.

thanks Alex. I figured that must be the case damned majority

kuzi16

madurofan:
I was unaware of that, but it doesn't make me feel any better, as they are lying about what the cigar is. If it is as you describe it, that is not a maduro, its an oscuro. And no matter how you slice it, they were pandering to a trend.

is Davidoff pandering to a trend by making cigars with an Ecuadorian Sumatra? That was all the rage about 5 years ago.

using a different wrapper is just changing a blend.
selling on-line (to select merchants) doesnt cheapen them. they still have very strict price controls, soil controls, growing conditions, fermentation process, blending aging, etc.
adding a huge vitola to a brand that is known for keeping cuban tradition seems like a very good line to draw as far as pandering goes.

this also wouldnt be the first time that a cigar is not what it calls itself (if thats what it was actually doing). remember the Punch Rare Corojo?

maduro is also a subjective thing. some say its a color some say it is a process. even people that have spent all their lives in the industry disagree on this point.
this is NOT a misrepresentation.

Alex Svenson

The maduro thing as it relates to Davidoff has a different back story. Kelner was against it personally.

rzaman

As far as I know Kelner was not enthusiastic about it but nor against it either. He is the one who discovered the Maduro wrapper from Jalapa, Nicaragua. Davidoff was thinking to use a Broadleaf Maduro with Dominican fillers and San Vicente binder but Henke chose the Maduro wrapper from Japala.

kuzi16

Kelner is well documented to not be a huge maduro fan.
im not exactly sure why but whatever. I mean he did produce a killer cigar in the Davidoff maduro. I mean, it IS my number one regular production smoke.

kinda wish it came in a lonesdale.

BigT06

kuzi16:
Kelner is well documented to not be a huge maduro fan.
im not exactly sure why but whatever. I mean he did produce a killer cigar in the Davidoff maduro. I mean, it IS my number one regular production smoke.

kinda wish it came in a lonesdale.

What vitola do you prefer in the Maduro? I though about picking some up, but I've only had the robusto. It was phenomenal. I actually got it from you, kuzi. I was wondering if the little corona was as good or better than the robo...?

kuzi16

BigT06:
kuzi16:
Kelner is well documented to not be a huge maduro fan.
im not exactly sure why but whatever. I mean he did produce a killer cigar in the Davidoff maduro. I mean, it IS my number one regular production smoke.

kinda wish it came in a lonesdale.
What vitola do you prefer in the Maduro? I though about picking some up, but I've only had the robusto. It was phenomenal. I actually got it from you, kuzi. I was wondering if the little corona was as good or better than the robo...?

ive only had it int the robusto and the toro. of those two i liked the robusto. i have a feeling ill like the corona though.