Why is it the middle and especially end of the cigar taste the best?

jliu

I just realized this w/in the last month or so. Sorry if this has already been discussed. Please direct me to the thread if it has. Didn't find much after digging for it...

*Petey*

Jiunn, goodquestion, man

kuzi has some good info on this in his blending 101 thread I beleive.

Most cigars (nub being the exception) have a "sweet spot" and most of the time its in the middle and lasts throught unless it gets too hot, or you burn your fingers. It has to do with the shape of the leaves and the parts that the rollers use and the way the nutrients (flavor) of the leaf are more concentrated near the central vein. So they usually roll a cigar so the it will build in strength/flavor as you go, and thats where the sweet spot comes from.

Seriously, though, kuzi has a way better explanation, with drawings and stuff in that thread and its totally worth a read through.

kuzi16

the post you are referring to is this one (on THIS Page):

kuzi16:

there have been a few threads in recent weeks that have to to with different vitolas: NUBs, Churchills, A, etc.

like this thread.

i will post the meat and potatoes of that thread here as to add to the concept of blending.



sketch "A" is a picture of a standard tobacco leaf. there is a stem in the center and veins coming off of that stem that supply nutrients to thew rest of the leaf. the farther up on the leaf you go and the farther away from the stem and the stalk (not shown) the lower the nutrient concentration

sketch "B" is the wrapper leaf after it has been cut to become a wrapper. the stem has been cut out along with the thickest part of the larger veins and the edges cut down a bit to make a more uniform wrapper.

Sketch "C" is the addition of the wrapper leaf to the cigar. the binder is already holding the filler together at this stage. as you can see the leaf is being rolled at an angle. if you have ever looked how the seems in a cigar twist around it like a barber pole this is where it comes from.

Sketch "D" shows you how the NUB is cut. (sort of, keep in mind this i a very quick sketch. the actual cut is way more curved and leaves more on one end to make a cap out of) there is more taken off from the edge of the leaf and a bit taken off the tips. these are the areas that do not have as many nutrients reaching them from the stem. this also results in a narrower band of tobacco that can be used as a wrapper so shorter cigars are required. the large ring can remain because the length of the leaf is not that much shorter.

a similar process takes place with the filler leaf. in a "full length" cigar the filler leaf is folded back on itself until it is about the right length. this has a tendency to make the end have less of the rich part of the leaf. with a nub, only the nutrient rich center part of the leaf is used (sweet spot)



another thought with this cigar is that the thick ash form the incredible density of the filler tobacco shields and filters the air more so than "normal" ash, producing a cooler burn.

jlmarta:

it seems to me that if two cigars are rolled using the exact same blend and ring gauge and then one of them is cut to the length of a Nub (4 inches, I think) and the other is cut to the length of, say, a toro, are you going to tell me that immediately upon lighting each of them, the Nub is already going to be in its 'sweet spot' but the toro isn't??

this is a fundamental misunderstanding of how a cigar is rolled. cigars arent rolled to a ring then cut to a length. every cigar, even a NUB, is designed to be exactly as long as it is.




*** it, just watch it yourself...

if you were to make a barber pole style cigar you would just use two different wrappers at sketch "B" and offset them a bit so at sketch "C" they would both be visible.





a bit further down in the post was this conversation that i feel needs to be brought up:

kuzi16:

Fairwind:

kuzi16:

Fairwind:

Nothing to explain, you have a firm grasp on advertising. I have smoked nubs and they're no different except a bigger ring and shorter length. Nothing special about them.

Dan

way to be a cynic.

LOL - not being a cynic, just that after smoking 5 of them, they're a good cigar but nothing world beating.

I just happen to like the toro length. I believe it has the right ring size to length for a cigar.

Good tobacco will make any cigar taste great regardless of the length.

I'll take a 6x60 from Rocky Patel over a nub any day of the week if I want a big fat cigar.

Just my taste and opinion of over 30 years of enjoying cigars daily.

Dan

you make a point. the sweet spot on cheap tobacco is not as good as the beginning of great tobacco.

the toro also used to be my favorite. but i think now im moving into the lancero and the lonesdale and the corona. better wrapperto filler ratio. it gives the wrapper (the best tobacco in the cigar) a platform to shine on.

to further the point by showing the opposite of the NUB...
in the vitola commonly known as the "A" (usually in the range of 9 or so inches long) the filler leaf, when bunched, is not folded over or cut. this means that through the length of the cigar you get all points in the leaf.
as discussed above, the different areas of the leaf get different nutrients in different ways. the flavor of a singular leaf will not be uniform throughout. the "A" vitola is the most likely to showcase the complexity within the filler.

jliu

wow kuzi. You seriously amaze me with your knowledge of the leaf. You're like Professor Kuzi haha. I read this once, and I will definitely need to read this a few more times to understand more of the bits and pieces. Thank you so much man. Class dismissed for now so that I can finish this Casa Magna Colorado Belicoso. Thanks again man.

kuzi16

jliu:

wow kuzi. You seriously amaze me with your knowledge of the leaf. You're like Professor Kuzi haha. I read this once, and I will definitely need to read this a few more times to understand more of the bits and pieces. Thank you so much man. Class dismissed for now so that I can finish this Casa Magna Colorado Belicoso. Thanks again man.

read that thread. there are other good things going on in there that i didnt post myself.

feel free to ask questions.
im all about helping others enjoy this hobby.

*Petey*

kuzi16:

the post you are referring to is this one (on THIS Page):

kuzi16:

there have been a few threads in recent weeks that have to to with different vitolas: NUBs, Churchills, A, etc.

like this thread.

i will post the meat and potatoes of that thread here as to add to the concept of blending.



sketch "A" is a picture of a standard tobacco leaf. there is a stem in the center and veins coming off of that stem that supply nutrients to thew rest of the leaf. the farther up on the leaf you go and the farther away from the stem and the stalk (not shown) the lower the nutrient concentration

sketch "B" is the wrapper leaf after it has been cut to become a wrapper. the stem has been cut out along with the thickest part of the larger veins and the edges cut down a bit to make a more uniform wrapper.

Sketch "C" is the addition of the wrapper leaf to the cigar. the binder is already holding the filler together at this stage. as you can see the leaf is being rolled at an angle. if you have ever looked how the seems in a cigar twist around it like a barber pole this is where it comes from.

Sketch "D" shows you how the NUB is cut. (sort of, keep in mind this i a very quick sketch. the actual cut is way more curved and leaves more on one end to make a cap out of) there is more taken off from the edge of the leaf and a bit taken off the tips. these are the areas that do not have as many nutrients reaching them from the stem. this also results in a narrower band of tobacco that can be used as a wrapper so shorter cigars are required. the large ring can remain because the length of the leaf is not that much shorter.

a similar process takes place with the filler leaf. in a "full length" cigar the filler leaf is folded back on itself until it is about the right length. this has a tendency to make the end have less of the rich part of the leaf. with a nub, only the nutrient rich center part of the leaf is used (sweet spot)



another thought with this cigar is that the thick ash form the incredible density of the filler tobacco shields and filters the air more so than "normal" ash, producing a cooler burn.

jlmarta:

it seems to me that if two cigars are rolled using the exact same blend and ring gauge and then one of them is cut to the length of a Nub (4 inches, I think) and the other is cut to the length of, say, a toro, are you going to tell me that immediately upon lighting each of them, the Nub is already going to be in its 'sweet spot' but the toro isn't??

this is a fundamental misunderstanding of how a cigar is rolled. cigars arent rolled to a ring then cut to a length. every cigar, even a NUB, is designed to be exactly as long as it is.




*** it, just watch it yourself...

if you were to make a barber pole style cigar you would just use two different wrappers at sketch "B" and offset them a bit so at sketch "C" they would both be visible.





a bit further down in the post was this conversation that i feel needs to be brought up:

kuzi16:

Fairwind:

kuzi16:

Fairwind:

Nothing to explain, you have a firm grasp on advertising. I have smoked nubs and they're no different except a bigger ring and shorter length. Nothing special about them.

Dan

way to be a cynic.

LOL - not being a cynic, just that after smoking 5 of them, they're a good cigar but nothing world beating.

I just happen to like the toro length. I believe it has the right ring size to length for a cigar.

Good tobacco will make any cigar taste great regardless of the length.

I'll take a 6x60 from Rocky Patel over a nub any day of the week if I want a big fat cigar.

Just my taste and opinion of over 30 years of enjoying cigars daily.

Dan

you make a point. the sweet spot on cheap tobacco is not as good as the beginning of great tobacco.

the toro also used to be my favorite. but i think now im moving into the lancero and the lonesdale and the corona. better wrapperto filler ratio. it gives the wrapper (the best tobacco in the cigar) a platform to shine on.

to further the point by showing the opposite of the NUB...
in the vitola commonly known as the "A" (usually in the range of 9 or so inches long) the filler leaf, when bunched, is not folded over or cut. this means that through the length of the cigar you get all points in the leaf.
as discussed above, the different areas of the leaf get different nutrients in different ways. the flavor of a singular leaf will not be uniform throughout. the "A" vitola is the most likely to showcase the complexity within the filler.

Yup, thanks for reposting this Kuzi, this is the one.

fla-gypsy

I am certain that Kuzi is exactly right even though I don't want to think that hard about it. My experience tells me the shorter the smoke the quicker you get there. I loathe most Churchill blends and love Robustos for this very reason.

kuzi16

fla-gypsy:

I am certain that Kuzi is exactly right even though I don't want to think that hard about it. My experience tells me the shorter the smoke the quicker you get there. I loathe most Churchill blends and love Robustos for this very reason.

thats interesting. i like a longer cigar because of the complexity over the length of the cigar. give me a good lonesdale (6.5 x 42) and im a happy man.