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Online sales tax

RhamlinRhamlin Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 4,530
Looks like its up to the house now. I figure they will pass it. I'm still a little blurry on how it would work. But it looks like you will be charged for sales tax for the state you live in. I wonder how long online retailers will have before they have to start doing it. This will definitely put a damper on the ol cigar budget. Better get a cooler and start stocking up.
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Comments

  • brianetz1brianetz1 Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 3,898
  • AVJimAVJim Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 438
    Rhamlin:
    Looks like its up to the house now. I figure they will pass it. I'm still a little blurry on how it would work. But it looks like you will be charged for sales tax for the state you live in. I wonder how long online retailers will have before they have to start doing it. This will definitely put a damper on the ol cigar budget. Better get a cooler and start stocking up.
    Already started.... MN already has a crazy sales tax on cigars....
  • RhamlinRhamlin Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 4,530
    brianetz1:
    link?
    No I don't have a link but I know the Senate has already ok'd it. Now it's just waiting on the house to pass it.
  • webmostwebmost Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 3,131
    Tax tax tax tax
    Tax tax tax tax
    Tax tax tax tax
    Tax tax tax tax
    Tax tax tax tax
    Taxitty taxitty tax tax tax tax tax
    Well, at least they put it to good use

  • Amos UmwhatAmos Umwhat Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 2,523
  • blurrblurr Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 962
    Well, I guess I'll just have to order my cigars from out of the country...oh wait I would never do that.
  • jgibvjgibv Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 5,996
    Yes, wonder how they will enforce this? Will it be up to the online retailers to charge the tax?
    Bet that won't be easy/cheap for them to do .... I imagine lots of extra paperwork for the retailers.

    webmost:

    Well, at least they put it to good use

    (Sarcasm??)
    LOL

    Death and Taxes 2012 Chart
    (Click the image to enlarge/zoom in)
  • prosspross Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 739
    This is an absolutely huge blow to small internet companies (like mine).

    The administrative costs will be huge. Even if a software based solution comes out (which one will), it will have a monthly cost associated with it that is another small dagger in the heart of the small businessman.
  • thedjfish@comcast.netthedjfish@comcast.net Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 1,533
    Rhamlin:
    Looks like its up to the house now. I figure they will pass it. I'm still a little blurry on how it would work. But it looks like you will be charged for sales tax for the state you live in. I wonder how long online retailers will have before they have to start doing it. This will definitely put a damper on the ol cigar budget. Better get a cooler and start stocking up.
    i been saying it, taxes and more taxes, i told my wife that, and thats why i must order large amounts of cigars, and buy more humidors to store them in,dont take any chances buy! buy!,LOL
  • rwheelwrightrwheelwright Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 3,294
    Realistically I have enough cigars to smoke for years. If I smoke one a day I have enough for 5.4 years. If I smoke less then they will last longer. Or.... For those of us that live close to PA or NC we can drive to our local stores and buy cigars and not pay tax!
  • webmostwebmost Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 3,131
    rwheelwright:
    Realistically I have enough cigars to smoke for years. If I smoke one a day I have enough for 5.4 years. If I smoke less then they will last longer. Or.... For those of us that live close to PA or NC we can drive to our local stores and buy cigars and not pay tax!
    Huh? PA has a sales tax, dunnit?
  • webmostwebmost Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 3,131
    pross:
    This is an absolutely huge blow to small internet companies (like mine).

    The administrative costs will be huge. Even if a software based solution comes out (which one will), it will have a monthly cost associated with it that is another small dagger in the heart of the small businessman.
    Their current excuse is that unless you do a million bucks a year sales you are exempt from this. Until they kick the legs out from under that excuse.

  • webmostwebmost Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 3,131
    jgibv:
    Yes, wonder how they will enforce this? Will it be up to the online retailers to charge the tax?
    Bet that won't be easy/cheap for them to do .... I imagine lots of extra paperwork for the retailers.

    webmost:

    Well, at least they put it to good use

    (Sarcasm??)
    LOL

    Death and Taxes 2012 Chart
    (Click the image to enlarge/zoom in)
    Enforcement and compliance may together cost as much as the tax will realize.
  • xmacroxmacro Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 3,402
    The bill may very well die in the House, and for good reason

    Even the bills author, Mike Enzi (D-WY), has no idea how many taxing authorities this bill will create. We have 50 States, about 9,000 cities and municipalities that have taxing authority, as well as about 600 indian tribes, all of which tax.

    The Supreme Court already ruled that States themselves can't tax out of State sales, this bill is an attempted end-run around that.

    The bill started out authorizing all 9,000 or so taxing entities to tax, then the language was changed so that "States" can tax - problem is, the bill doesn't specifically rule on what a "State" is - so the nation's 600 or so indian tribes might be considered as well as the 50 State. But the fun doesn't stop there - the bill also allows "any territory or possession" of the US to tax as well -so say hello to Guam, Puerto Rico, Virgin Islands, etc, taxing internet sales as well.

    The most outrageous thing about this bill, is that it's advocates are saying this bill "levies the playing field for brick and mortars" - but it does so by penalizing the entrepeneurs, instead of lifting the burden from B&M's. It's like saying you're going to even the playing field in a race by breaking everyone's kneecaps - that way everyone's equally hobbled, and everyone's got the same burden.

  • prosspross Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 739
    webmost:
    pross:
    This is an absolutely huge blow to small internet companies (like mine).

    The administrative costs will be huge. Even if a software based solution comes out (which one will), it will have a monthly cost associated with it that is another small dagger in the heart of the small businessman.
    Their current excuse is that unless you do a million bucks a year sales you are exempt from this. Until they kick the legs out from under that excuse.



    The problem is a million a year is not a huge number in gross sales. I am significantly over that, but the burden of collecting, tracking, and paying is huge.

    You can bet that all penalties for late filing or errors will land squarely on me. I will then have to pay my accountant to verify all filings were correct, etc etc etc. I figure this to be $10k + out of my pocket on an annual basis. before lost sales are counted.

  • Roberto99Roberto99 Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 1,077
    xmacro:
    The most outrageous thing about this bill, is that it's advocates are saying this bill "levies the playing field for brick and mortars" - but it does so by penalizing the entrepeneurs, instead of lifting the burden from B&M's. It's like saying you're going to even the playing field in a race by breaking everyone's kneecaps - that way everyone's equally hobbled, and everyone's got the same burden.

    Land of the free and all that.
  • jgibvjgibv Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 5,996
    webmost:
    jgibv:
    Yes, wonder how they will enforce this? Will it be up to the online retailers to charge the tax?
    Bet that won't be easy/cheap for them to do .... I imagine lots of extra paperwork for the retailers.

    webmost:

    Well, at least they put it to good use

    (Sarcasm??)
    LOL

    Death and Taxes 2012 Chart
    (Click the image to enlarge/zoom in)
    Enforcement and compliance may together cost as much as the tax will realize.
    I wouldn't doubt that for a second.


    And I agree with pross ... the initial cost/time for business owners to implement this would no doubt be expensive....add on a monthly/annual fee for "software updates", time spent filing compliance paperwork, etc. Would put a lot of small online businesses in a tough spot I bet.

  • Gray4linesGray4lines Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 3,439
    jgibv:
    webmost:
    jgibv:
    Yes, wonder how they will enforce this? Will it be up to the online retailers to charge the tax?
    Bet that won't be easy/cheap for them to do .... I imagine lots of extra paperwork for the retailers.

    webmost:

    Well, at least they put it to good use

    (Sarcasm??)
    LOL

    Death and Taxes 2012 Chart
    (Click the image to enlarge/zoom in)
    Enforcement and compliance may together cost as much as the tax will realize.
    I wouldn't doubt that for a second.


    And I agree with pross ... the initial cost/time for business owners to implement this would no doubt be expensive....add on a monthly/annual fee for "software updates", time spent filing compliance paperwork, etc. Would put a lot of small online businesses in a tough spot I bet.

    No doubt! And any kind of tax on $0.00 is... 0!
  • jadeltjadelt Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 766
    I could be wrong (dont tell my wife) but...... as I understand the bill, it ONLY applies to retailers who have a brick and mortar facility in that state. In other words, since Amazon has a distribution facility in Texas they would have to collect sales tax on Texas purchases.

    As to the 'complexities' of 9,000 taxing locations, there is simple software that uses zip code and county to do the complex variety of taxes.

    And lastly, just my opinion, sales tax and shipping wash each other now. B+M have to charge tax and internet have to charge shipping (or eat it but then isnt that really the same thing?) So there really is no advantage to internet sales today.
  • RhamlinRhamlin Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 4,530
    xmacro:
    The bill may very well die in the House, and for good reason

    Even the bills author, Mike Enzi (D-WY), has no idea how many taxing authorities this bill will create. We have 50 States, about 9,000 cities and municipalities that have taxing authority, as well as about 600 indian tribes, all of which tax.

    The Supreme Court already ruled that States themselves can't tax out of State sales, this bill is an attempted end-run around that.

    The bill started out authorizing all 9,000 or so taxing entities to tax, then the language was changed so that "States" can tax - problem is, the bill doesn't specifically rule on what a "State" is - so the nation's 600 or so indian tribes might be considered as well as the 50 State. But the fun doesn't stop there - the bill also allows "any territory or possession" of the US to tax as well -so say hello to Guam, Puerto Rico, Virgin Islands, etc, taxing internet sales as well.

    The most outrageous thing about this bill, is that it's advocates are saying this bill "levies the playing field for brick and mortars" - but it does so by penalizing the entrepeneurs, instead of lifting the burden from B&M's. It's like saying you're going to even the playing field in a race by breaking everyone's kneecaps - that way everyone's equally hobbled, and everyone's got the same burden.

    Thats a good metaphor.
  • xmacroxmacro Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 3,402
    jadelt:
    I could be wrong (dont tell my wife) but...... as I understand the bill, it ONLY applies to retailers who have a brick and mortar facility in that state. In other words, since Amazon has a distribution facility in Texas they would have to collect sales tax on Texas purchases.

    As to the 'complexities' of 9,000 taxing locations, there is simple software that uses zip code and county to do the complex variety of taxes.

    And lastly, just my opinion, sales tax and shipping wash each other now. B+M have to charge tax and internet have to charge shipping (or eat it but then isnt that really the same thing?) So there really is no advantage to internet sales today.
    A few things:

    1) You're incorrect; the bill applies to where the good is sold, not where the distributor is located. Texas store sells a good online to a guy in New York: he's gotta collect the tax for NY from the buyer

    2) Maybe, but being taxed by 9,000 entities also means you're subject to being audited by 9,000 entities; even if the bill is narrowly tailored to only include 50 States (which at this point, it most surely is not) - that's 50 times more taxing entities than any business is subject to. I don't think a business in Ohio or Florida should be subject to a tax audit from San Francisco, and likewise, a business can always be hit with multiple State audits in a single year.

    3) The companies that are behind this, the Amazons and Microsofts . . . are the ones that make the software that computes tax that everyone will have to use.

    4) There really isn't any point to a sales tax; it'll only bring in an estimated $23 billion; which is about 1% of what State and local tax entites bring in now - so they're going to raise taxes on everyone and subject business' to multiple taxing entities each year . . . to raise their revenue 1%
  • jadeltjadelt Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 766
    Read it for yourself..... interesting title they put on it.....

    http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-113s743es/pdf/BILLS-113s743es.pdf
  • Lee.mcglynnLee.mcglynn Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 5,228
    I already pay pa sales tax so I'm not very worried but those who live in ny and Cali I feel for ya!!
  • Amos UmwhatAmos Umwhat Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 2,523
    Roberto99:
    xmacro:
    The most outrageous thing about this bill, is that it's advocates are saying this bill "levies the playing field for brick and mortars" - but it does so by penalizing the entrepeneurs, instead of lifting the burden from B&M's. It's like saying you're going to even the playing field in a race by breaking everyone's kneecaps - that way everyone's equally hobbled, and everyone's got the same burden.

    Land of the free and all that.
    The Harrison Bergeron approach, more and more popular with the govt.
  • kuzi16kuzi16 Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 14,471
    Amos Umwhat:
    The Harrison Bergeron approach, more and more popular with the govt.
    this ^^^ is a great post right here.

    i wish more people would understand that this is exactly what is going on.
  • Roberto99Roberto99 Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 1,077
    I have a question (that is not in response to anyone's comments here or to be construed as making my own commentary.) Can I buy a new car online from a different state right now and not have to pay any sales tax?
  • ddubridgeddubridge Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 3,949
    Roberto99:
    I have a question (that is not in response to anyone's comments here or to be construed as making my own commentary.) Can I buy a new car online from a different state right now and not have to pay any sales tax?
    Nope, you have to pay the sales tax on the vehicle when you title it in your state. If you arent going to title it, no sales tax. Just not sure how you are going to drive it.
  • CigarMan37CigarMan37 Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 432
    Tax this!!! They must stay awake at night thinking up new ways to line their pockets and squeeze the American public. They are like how do we spit in their eyes and tell them its raining?
  • webmostwebmost Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 3,131
    kuzi16:
    Amos Umwhat:
    The Harrison Bergeron approach, more and more popular with the govt.
    this ^^^ is a great post right here.

    i wish more people would understand that this is exactly what is going on.
    Thanks for bumping that reference. I'd never heard of that story. Googled it up, found the story on line and goddang if it ain't the stark naked truth.

  • webmostwebmost Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 3,131
    ddubridge:
    Roberto99:
    I have a question (that is not in response to anyone's comments here or to be construed as making my own commentary.) Can I buy a new car online from a different state right now and not have to pay any sales tax?
    Nope, you have to pay the sales tax on the vehicle when you title it in your state. If you arent going to title it, no sales tax. Just not sure how you are going to drive it.
    I've heard of people doing this with motorcycles. Buy in another state, ride it home, and now it's taxed at a used price.

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