Hmm some good discussion here. And thought-provoking questions no doubt.
kuzi16:
it also needlessly introduces potential burn issues to the cigars.
if this thread was about a Gurkha we would all be saying things like "no surprises here" or "well duh, its Gurkha" or "at least it isnt plastic, or a nail"
but as soon as it is a cigar company that people like, all is magically forgiven.
for me, this just reenforces my non-excitement about Padron.
Is the potential for burn issues as serious of an offense as actual burn issues?
And to play devil's advocate: what about the "rarity" vs. "commonality" of these brands. Gurkha and DE are easier to obtain than Padron, which would infer that more people would be exposed to and smoke the first two brands. If all three brands have the same percentage of "bad" cigars with stems, then complaints of the first two brands will be more frequent than the last brand, simply because of Padron's "rarity". Would you agree?
I don't think Padron should be magically forgiven. A stem is a stem is a stem. And if a cigar burns poorly, whether it cost $1 or $40, it's a bad cigar in my book.
Perhaps the stems in these 2 cigars are mere coincidence, it's a long shot but who knows. But for a brand that's marketed as "top-end" and "rare", and for the price, I would certainly not expect to have stems in the cigar.
But if there are stems, and the cigar burns well and tastes fine anyways, then that takes us back to my original question above and we're back at square one.
As I said, I have never smoked a Padron, anniversary or otherwise - and doubt I'd ever allow myself to pay MSRP for the high end ones .... but the information revealed in these "experiments" will certainly make me think twice if I ever want to buy any Padron in the future, even the "lower" end ones.
Gray4lines:
I understand that... we should be fair. A bum stick is a bum stick and is disappointing no matter what brand. I think you're missing an intricacy of what daniel found though. This padron isn't necessarily a bum stick and couldve smoked like a champ. Those other threads are discussing cigars that actually exhibited problems, (and the gurkha was a nail).
On the thought of being fair... let's pretend you have two friends. Mr. Padron and Mr. Gurk. One day Mr. Gurk borrows your car, and dents it while he's out. Damn... not a huge deal, but he has done this to you multiple times... he borrows your lawn mower and leaves the grass gunked up in it, borrows money and never pays it back. You wonder why you even give him another chance.
If Mr. P pulled the same car stunt, but generally he never let you down. Who are you more upset with? There is something aggravating about repeat offenders.
Good analogy Gray....but I think Mr P and Mr G have very different "personalities" that aren't taken into account in your scenario.
If I let Mr P or Mr G borrow my car and it got a scratch I would be upset. Scratch it twice and I'm pissed. Three times and neither of them are allowed in my car again.
But Mr P only comes around once a year, you never see him, he's an old friend and decent guy but he left a huge scratch in your car. And this scratch will cost a lot of $$ to fix and your car will be in the shop for a few weeks. And you have to send your car to a special repair shop because the part he scratched is difficult and unique to repair.
But Mr G, he lives down the street, you see him all the time. He's a nice enough guy but he leaves little tiny dents in your car. They cost next to nothing to fix, and only take 5 minutes to pop out the dent. Any of your dealerships/quick oil change shops/or even NAPA can pop out these dents. It's not hard to do and doesn't cost much....but it keeps happening.
Now, tell me who are you more upset with? Is it still Mr P, or is it Mr G?
I think there are enough pardon fans that if they were cranking out duds, we would hear about it. Definitely I'd be more upset over a $12 dud than a $2 dud... But Gurks can be pricey too, and pardons like the thousands can be cheap.
I think you nailed it with this. "Is the potential for burn issues as serious of an offense as actual burn issues?" I would have to answer no.
Is the potential for burn issues as serious of an offense as actual burn issues?
clearly no. i just wouldnt put stems in my cigars if i were making them.
jgibv:
And to play devil's advocate: what about the "rarity" vs. "commonality" of these brands. Gurkha and DE are easier to obtain than Padron,
disagree here. DE is notorious for being impossible to find. Padrons are everywhere.
jgibv:
which would infer that more people would be exposed to and smoke the first two brands. If all three brands have the same percentage of "bad" cigars with stems, then complaints of the first two brands will be more frequent than the last brand, simply because of Padron's "rarity". Would you agree?
gurkha has a way higher percentage that the other two. then DE then Padron.
all i am getting at is that i see many complaints about twigs in DE and Gurkha but never in Padron.
jgibv:
I don't think Padron should be magically forgiven. A stem is a stem is a stem. And if a cigar burns poorly, whether it cost $1 or $40, it's a bad cigar in my book.
agreed. i dont hear of burn issues from them but i just know i wouldnt take the chance.
jgibv:
Perhaps the stems in these 2 cigars are mere coincidence, it's a long shot but who knows. But for a brand that's marketed as "top-end" and "rare", and for the price, I would certainly not expect to have stems in the cigar.
But if there are stems, and the cigar burns well and tastes fine anyways, then that takes us back to my original question above and we're back at square one.
As I said, I have never smoked a Padron, anniversary or otherwise - and doubt I'd ever allow myself to pay MSRP for the high end ones .... but the information revealed in these "experiments" will certainly make me think twice if I ever want to buy any Padron in the future, even the "lower" end ones.
I found this on the original site for the first video so I can't say for sure this is legit, but the poster claims it is an actual letter from Jorge Padron regarding this issue.
I sent Padron an email last night after watching the video, along with a link to the sight. To my surprise, I received a response and thought it would be interesting to share.
Dear Mr. ******,
Thank you for taking the time to write to us regarding the video you saw
posted by Cigar Obsession. I can tell you that my family and I completely
disagree with the gentlemen’s assessment as to the construction and quality
of our tobaccos. The leaves that you saw in the video that had stems are
filler leaves. Contrary to the gentlemen’s assessment that “everyone is
entitled to a mistake”, THIS IS NOT BY MISTAKE and is actually very common
in our cigars. ALL THE FILLER LEAVES USED IN OUR CIGARS WILL HAVE STEMS OF
VARIOUS SIZES AND THICKNESS DEPENDING ON THE TYPE OF LEAF BEING USED IN THE
BLEND. These stems are slightly larger because the leaves in those cigars
are usually from higher priming’s that are thicker/larger leaves that will
always have larger stems. In addition, it is important for you to
understand that we only devein the bottom third of the stem on the leaf.
Those leaves featured are from tobaccos that are of the highest quality
grown on our farms. It is important to note that most manufacturers purchase
filler tobacco from leaf suppliers. We, on the other hand, have the benefit
of deveining and sorting all of our tobaccos ourselves and of doing it
exactly how we want it done. This philosophy has not changed in 50 years and
over 167 million cigars sold. I believe that our track record on quality and
construction speaks for itself. Producing cigars of the highest quality on a
consistent basis has always been and will always be our number one goal.
I again thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts, I hope that my
explanation provides clarification. I have included a picture of one of our
deveined tobacco leaves so that you can see what I mean by only deveining
the bottom third. You will notice that the top portion still contains the
stem. (not sure how to attach the picture he provided)
I found this on the original site for the first video so I can't say for sure this is legit, but the poster claims it is an actual letter from Jorge Padron regarding this issue.
I sent Padron an email last night after watching the video, along with a link to the sight. To my surprise, I received a response and thought it would be interesting to share.
Dear Mr. ******,
Thank you for taking the time to write to us regarding the video you saw
posted by Cigar Obsession. I can tell you that my family and I completely
disagree with the gentlemen’s assessment as to the construction and quality
of our tobaccos. The leaves that you saw in the video that had stems are
filler leaves. Contrary to the gentlemen’s assessment that “everyone is
entitled to a mistake”, THIS IS NOT BY MISTAKE and is actually very common
in our cigars. ALL THE FILLER LEAVES USED IN OUR CIGARS WILL HAVE STEMS OF
VARIOUS SIZES AND THICKNESS DEPENDING ON THE TYPE OF LEAF BEING USED IN THE
BLEND. These stems are slightly larger because the leaves in those cigars
are usually from higher priming’s that are thicker/larger leaves that will
always have larger stems. In addition, it is important for you to
understand that we only devein the bottom third of the stem on the leaf.
Those leaves featured are from tobaccos that are of the highest quality
grown on our farms. It is important to note that most manufacturers purchase
filler tobacco from leaf suppliers. We, on the other hand, have the benefit
of deveining and sorting all of our tobaccos ourselves and of doing it
exactly how we want it done. This philosophy has not changed in 50 years and
over 167 million cigars sold. I believe that our track record on quality and
construction speaks for itself. Producing cigars of the highest quality on a
consistent basis has always been and will always be our number one goal.
I again thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts, I hope that my
explanation provides clarification. I have included a picture of one of our
deveined tobacco leaves so that you can see what I mean by only deveining
the bottom third. You will notice that the top portion still contains the
stem. (not sure how to attach the picture he provided)
Sincerely,
Jorge L. Padron
President
Awesome... if that's true, then that is just Padron's way of doing it I suppose.
clearly no. i just wouldnt put stems in my cigars if i were making them.
Touché.
kuzi16:
disagree here. DE is notorious for being impossible to find. Padrons are everywhere.
I guess I am spoiled to have a few B&Ms nearby and at least one of them will always have DE on the shelves, Unicos are harder to find though.
kuzi16:
agreed. i dont hear of burn issues from them but i just know i wouldnt take the chance.
Got ya.
kuzi16:
i think twice based off of flavor alone.
Fair enough.
Gray4lines:
I think you nailed it with this. "Is the potential for burn issues as serious of an offense as actual burn issues?" I would have to answer no.
I thought about this some more and I agree. Because wouldn't, technically, every cigar have the "potential" to burn poorly....the only ones that wouldn't have that potential would probably be machine made....sine you remove the human factor....
And very informative response from Jorge Padron. Interesting.
I think its pretty sorry ass that any company would use stems. SEEDS AND STEMS.... its like the first thing you learn about smoking... neither of those things are good. I dont care that its supposed to add flavor and complexity... blah blah blah.... Ive never had a Ciggarette with a stem... It just dosent seem right period.. I pay X Dollars for a smoke... if I wanted stems i might as well just roll up some oak leaves in the back or suck a grape vine. Dissapointing that any cigar company would find this practise OK.
I think its pretty sorry ass that any company would use stems. SEEDS AND STEMS.... its like the first thing you learn about smoking... neither of those things are good. I dont care that its supposed to add flavor and complexity... blah blah blah.... Ive never had a Ciggarette with a stem... It just dosent seem right period.. I pay X Dollars for a smoke... if I wanted stems i might as well just roll up some oak leaves in the back or suck a grape vine. Dissapointing that any cigar company would find this practise OK.
Aj
Cigarettes are a gold standard because they don't have stems? They don't really have much tobacco either.
If Padron says stems can be added to the cigar and they still smoke fine, I am happy to keep smoking Padrons. I have never seen a stem sticking out of my cigar or seen one to cause a burn issue. If there was a big wave of stems causing issues in Padrons in the last 50 years I think we would have heard about it before somehow.
Boycott them if you like. I like that they are not hard to find or super rare special Aniiversazilla sizes only released once a Hailey's Comet. At that point they are not smoking cigars anyhow, they are collector and secondary market gougers cigars. I like to smoke cigars.
I may have missed this in the thread, but the irony of that video and Jorge Padron's response is that Bryan is a HUGE Padron fan. I watch all of his reviews/videos and he references that Padron's are among his favorite cigars. I think he was just incredibly shocked that there were stems in his favorite cigar!
Comments
Is the potential for burn issues as serious of an offense as actual burn issues?
And to play devil's advocate: what about the "rarity" vs. "commonality" of these brands. Gurkha and DE are easier to obtain than Padron, which would infer that more people would be exposed to and smoke the first two brands. If all three brands have the same percentage of "bad" cigars with stems, then complaints of the first two brands will be more frequent than the last brand, simply because of Padron's "rarity". Would you agree?
I don't think Padron should be magically forgiven. A stem is a stem is a stem. And if a cigar burns poorly, whether it cost $1 or $40, it's a bad cigar in my book.
Perhaps the stems in these 2 cigars are mere coincidence, it's a long shot but who knows. But for a brand that's marketed as "top-end" and "rare", and for the price, I would certainly not expect to have stems in the cigar.
But if there are stems, and the cigar burns well and tastes fine anyways, then that takes us back to my original question above and we're back at square one.
As I said, I have never smoked a Padron, anniversary or otherwise - and doubt I'd ever allow myself to pay MSRP for the high end ones .... but the information revealed in these "experiments" will certainly make me think twice if I ever want to buy any Padron in the future, even the "lower" end ones. Good analogy Gray....but I think Mr P and Mr G have very different "personalities" that aren't taken into account in your scenario.
If I let Mr P or Mr G borrow my car and it got a scratch I would be upset. Scratch it twice and I'm pissed. Three times and neither of them are allowed in my car again.
But Mr P only comes around once a year, you never see him, he's an old friend and decent guy but he left a huge scratch in your car. And this scratch will cost a lot of $$ to fix and your car will be in the shop for a few weeks. And you have to send your car to a special repair shop because the part he scratched is difficult and unique to repair.
But Mr G, he lives down the street, you see him all the time. He's a nice enough guy but he leaves little tiny dents in your car. They cost next to nothing to fix, and only take 5 minutes to pop out the dent. Any of your dealerships/quick oil change shops/or even NAPA can pop out these dents. It's not hard to do and doesn't cost much....but it keeps happening.
Now, tell me who are you more upset with? Is it still Mr P, or is it Mr G?
I think you nailed it with this. "Is the potential for burn issues as serious of an offense as actual burn issues?" I would have to answer no.
disagree here. DE is notorious for being impossible to find. Padrons are everywhere. gurkha has a way higher percentage that the other two. then DE then Padron.
all i am getting at is that i see many complaints about twigs in DE and Gurkha but never in Padron.
agreed. i dont hear of burn issues from them but i just know i wouldnt take the chance. i think twice based off of flavor alone.
I sent Padron an email last night after watching the video, along with a link to the sight. To my surprise, I received a response and thought it would be interesting to share.
Dear Mr. ******,
Thank you for taking the time to write to us regarding the video you saw posted by Cigar Obsession. I can tell you that my family and I completely disagree with the gentlemen’s assessment as to the construction and quality of our tobaccos. The leaves that you saw in the video that had stems are filler leaves. Contrary to the gentlemen’s assessment that “everyone is entitled to a mistake”, THIS IS NOT BY MISTAKE and is actually very common in our cigars. ALL THE FILLER LEAVES USED IN OUR CIGARS WILL HAVE STEMS OF VARIOUS SIZES AND THICKNESS DEPENDING ON THE TYPE OF LEAF BEING USED IN THE BLEND. These stems are slightly larger because the leaves in those cigars are usually from higher priming’s that are thicker/larger leaves that will always have larger stems. In addition, it is important for you to understand that we only devein the bottom third of the stem on the leaf. Those leaves featured are from tobaccos that are of the highest quality grown on our farms. It is important to note that most manufacturers purchase filler tobacco from leaf suppliers. We, on the other hand, have the benefit of deveining and sorting all of our tobaccos ourselves and of doing it exactly how we want it done. This philosophy has not changed in 50 years and over 167 million cigars sold. I believe that our track record on quality and construction speaks for itself. Producing cigars of the highest quality on a consistent basis has always been and will always be our number one goal.
I again thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts, I hope that my explanation provides clarification. I have included a picture of one of our deveined tobacco leaves so that you can see what I mean by only deveining the bottom third. You will notice that the top portion still contains the stem. (not sure how to attach the picture he provided)
Sincerely,
Jorge L. Padron
President
I guess I am spoiled to have a few B&Ms nearby and at least one of them will always have DE on the shelves, Unicos are harder to find though. Got ya. Fair enough. I thought about this some more and I agree. Because wouldn't, technically, every cigar have the "potential" to burn poorly....the only ones that wouldn't have that potential would probably be machine made....sine you remove the human factor....
And very informative response from Jorge Padron. Interesting.
Feel free to send them all to me so that I can burn them properly !
Aj
If Padron says stems can be added to the cigar and they still smoke fine, I am happy to keep smoking Padrons. I have never seen a stem sticking out of my cigar or seen one to cause a burn issue. If there was a big wave of stems causing issues in Padrons in the last 50 years I think we would have heard about it before somehow.
Boycott them if you like. I like that they are not hard to find or super rare special Aniiversazilla sizes only released once a Hailey's Comet. At that point they are not smoking cigars anyhow, they are collector and secondary market gougers cigars. I like to smoke cigars.