Weak wrappers

LiquidChaos66

So Cameroon. Duh... But what are the other weaker wrappers? I haven't had anything other than Cameroon split on me. I'm just curious.

blurr

If you mean thin, fragile, frail, well connecticut and cameroon are the only 2 to me that are super fragile. Unless of course you get some of the cheaper house brand cigars, any of those can have the potential of having a thin wrapper splitting on you.

brianetz1

blurr:

If you mean thin, fragile, frail, well connecticut and cameroon are the only 2 to me that are super fragile. Unless of course you get some of the cheaper house brand cigars, any of those can have the potential of having a thin wrapper splitting on you.

i was going to say, cheaper cigars like victor Sinclair, 1886, and other crappy cigars have a tendency to split

LiquidChaos66

If I remember right maduro is pretty dang strong. I don't smoke many maduro sticks lol. I don't recall having a Connecticut split on me.

danielzreyes

Drake sucks, Lil Wayne sucks, Kanye West sucks. They're all weak IMO.

slamb@cigar.com

Liquid, Maduro is not a type of wrapper or varietal of leaf, but a process of fermentation. The majority of these will be from the Connecticut or Pennsylvania Broad leaf variety and these are going to be thick and strong. The thinnest and most fragile leaf would most certainly be the Cameroon, other than that, the thickness and strength of the leaf will differ from varietal to varietal and priming to priming.

jd50ae

I know that this may cause some....ah....conversation, but, the only wrappers I have ever had any trouble with at all, have come out of cello and 2 or 3 that I did not let rest long enough (my fault).

LiquidChaos66

slamb@cigar.com:

Liquid, Maduro is not a type of wrapper or varietal of leaf, but a process of fermentation. The majority of these will be from the Connecticut or Pennsylvania Broad leaf variety and these are going to be thick and strong. The thinnest and most fragile leaf would most certainly be the Cameroon, other than that, the thickness and strength of the leaf will differ from varietal to varietal and priming to priming.

WHAT!?!?! Lmao!!!! Dang I just learned something new just now! So does the fermenting process effect the stability of the leaf as a wrapper or do they remain the same strength as long as they are properly hydrated?

Chemnitz

danielzreyes:

Drake sucks, Lil Wayne sucks, Kanye West sucks. They're all weak IMO.

If there was a problem yo I'll solve it
Check out the hook while my DJ revolves it

Ice ice baby vanilla
Ice ice baby vanilla
Ice ice baby vanilla
Ice ice baby vanilla

Some old ones are VERY weak.

smoke em if you got em

danielzreyes:

Drake sucks, Lil Wayne sucks, Kanye West sucks. They're all weak IMO.

timeout son! New Kayne sucks..the old kan yeezy is classic. College dropout...one of the sickest albums...ever! You gonna make me drop 30 sticks and some music on you bro??

danielzreyes

smoke em if you got em:

danielzreyes:

Drake sucks, Lil Wayne sucks, Kanye West sucks. They're all weak IMO.

timeout son! New Kayne sucks..the old kan yeezy is classic. College dropout...one of the sickest albums...ever! You gonna make me drop 30 sticks and some music on you bro??

Ya know what. I agree with that 100%. The College Dropout was good ish ..... and if you do that, I'll bomb yo ass wit sum wet food seasoning packets ... son!

smoke em if you got em

danielzreyes:

smoke em if you got em:

danielzreyes:

Drake sucks, Lil Wayne sucks, Kanye West sucks. They're all weak IMO.

timeout son! New Kayne sucks..the old kan yeezy is classic. College dropout...one of the sickest albums...ever! You gonna make me drop 30 sticks and some music on you bro??

Ya know what. I agree with that 100%. The College Dropout was good ish ..... and if you do that, I'll bomb yo ass wit sum wet food seasoning packets ... son!

we are good now! Glad we agree

slamb@cigar.com

As long as they are properly humidified the over all stability of the leaf should stay consistent.

Ken Light

slamb@cigar.com:

Liquid, Maduro is not a type of wrapper or varietal of leaf, but a process of fermentation. The majority of these will be from the Connecticut or Pennsylvania Broad leaf variety and these are going to be thick and strong. The thinnest and most fragile leaf would most certainly be the Cameroon, other than that, the thickness and strength of the leaf will differ from varietal to varietal and priming to priming.

While maduro isn't a variety of leaf, isn't it true that most leaves that are more fragile will be difficult to put through the extra fermentation necessary to make them a maduro? So it IS safe to say that maduro wrappers, as a category not as a variety of leaf, are strong, right?

slamb@cigar.com

This is accurate, this is precisely why you will not see a Maduro in a Cameroon leaf for instance.

LiquidChaos66

slamb@cigar.com:

This is accurate, this is precisely why you will not see a Maduro in a Cameroon leaf for instance.

wonder how that would taste. Lol

slamb@cigar.com

I bet it would be delicious...

Ken Light

slamb@cigar.com:

I bet it would be delicious...

Yeah, I wonder if there's a way to make it happen...

For instance, if I want to slice a brain really really thinly, the problem is it gets really fragile and the slices break apart. So the solution is to embed the brains in parrafin, then slice them with this extra support, mount those slices on slides, then wash away the parrafin. I'm not saying that's precisely what should be done, but if there was a substance that would support these leaves that could be removed later...or maybe be natural and tasteless so it doesn't need removal...you get the idea.

slamb@cigar.com

That is certainly an idea, but it would have to be substance that would not affect the over all fermentation process itself...that would be the tricky part.

timb

Funny you guys are discussing this!  Many moons ago when my beard was but a patchy stubble Cameroon wrapper was my obsession.  I was in love with the flavor profile.  Torano 1916, Leather Patch by Drew Estate (anyone remember that one?!), La Aurora, etc etc.  One day over a couple of drinks I says to Alex Svenson, "Hey Benson, how come there's no Cameroon Maduro?".  The large Swede pondered my Q for a few, finished off the gallon of scotch he was drinking, and said "I don't know, let me ask Nestor P. for some samples."

 

6 or 7 months later (or maybe it was a year, I forget) Nestor Plansencia sent us a handful of cigars with mahogany brown wrappers.  The veins were plentiful and dark.  The flavor was syrupy sweet, with a flavor not unlike Coca Cola!  Seriously, never tasted anything like it.  These cigars featured a Cameroon maduro.  However, just like ya'll predicted in this thread the wrappers were flaky and fragile and would be impossible to use on a larger scale.

 

That is the tale of the Beard and Alex's adventures with Cameroon maduro.  Stay tuned for another episode when i damn feel like it.

 

XOXO

tb

ShotgunJohn

timb:

Funny you guys are discussing this!  Many moons ago when my beard was but a patchy stubble Cameroon wrapper was my obsession.  I was in love with the flavor profile.  Torano 1916, Leather Patch by Drew Estate (anyone remember that one?!), La Aurora, etc etc.  One day over a couple of drinks I says to Alex Svenson, "Hey Benson, how come there's no Cameroon Maduro?".  The large Swede pondered my Q for a few, finished off the gallon of scotch he was drinking, and said "I don't know, let me ask Nestor P. for some samples."

 

6 or 7 months later (or maybe it was a year, I forget) Nestor Plansencia sent us a handful of cigars with mahogany brown wrappers.  The veins were plentiful and dark.  The flavor was syrupy sweet, with a flavor not unlike Coca Cola!  Seriously, never tasted anything like it.  These cigars featured a Cameroon maduro.  However, just like ya'll predicted in this thread the wrappers were flaky and fragile and would be impossible to use on a larger scale.

 

That is the tale of the Beard and Alex's adventures with Cameroon maduro.  Stay tuned for another episode when i damn feel like it.

 

XOXO

tb

The Beard is the Best!!!! Thanks for weighing in. You should start a blog series called "Adventures of The Beard and The Big A!" that would be epic.

Ken Light

slamb@cigar.com:

That is certainly an idea, but it would have to be substance that would not affect the over all fermentation process itself...that would be the tricky part.

Good point, could make this very difficult.

kuzi16

thick leaves are used for maduro because the process is very hard on leaves. the fragile ones do not survive.

for example, the honduran corojo that camacho uses as a wrapper on the corojo maduro and the old diploma maduro is not made with a hearty leaf. Corojo is on the lower middle end of thickness in comparison. that wrapper is fragile as all get out. much of it does not survive. this is one of the reasons why before the rebrand the corojo maduro was a hair more expensive than the non-maduro

timb

Might just have to do that, John!  Problem is I'm a terrible writer.  I can bang out a few lines here and there but after 2 paragraphs I run out of words I know and then I just start cursing. 

gio164

You might be able to use it as a binder.

Cigary

kuzi16:

thick leaves are used for maduro because the process is very hard on leaves. the fragile ones do not survive.

for example, the honduran corojo that camacho uses as a wrapper on the corojo maduro and the old diploma maduro is not made with a hearty leaf. Corojo is on the lower middle end of thickness in comparison. that wrapper is fragile as all get out. much of it does not survive. this is one of the reasons why before the rebrand the corojo maduro was a hair more expensive than the non-maduro

You are exactly on point here as Maduro is my favorite along with a Brazilian. Maduro wrappers are sweeter but as said require a longer time to ferment..."Maduro" is the Spanish word for "ripe" and is used cigar-wise to refer to the extra time required and the dark colors achieved during the natural fermentation of maduro wrappers called "sweating". Typically these wrappers are oily, plush with flavor, and earthy to the nose. Also there is a process by which a method is used to darken the pigment of the wrapper called "cooking" and there is another process called dyeing which we've heard about...a machine called the Maud U Matic which colors the wrapper quickly and sugar is added to the molasses like dye....this is where we see the faint color on our lips and fingers and this process is what most enthusiasts balk at and rightly so.

Cigary

kuzi16:

thick leaves are used for maduro because the process is very hard on leaves. the fragile ones do not survive.

for example, the honduran corojo that camacho uses as a wrapper on the corojo maduro and the old diploma maduro is not made with a hearty leaf. Corojo is on the lower middle end of thickness in comparison. that wrapper is fragile as all get out. much of it does not survive. this is one of the reasons why before the rebrand the corojo maduro was a hair more expensive than the non-maduro

You are exactly on point here as Maduro is my favorite along with a Brazilian. Maduro wrappers are sweeter but as said require a longer time to ferment..."Maduro" is the Spanish word for "ripe" and is used cigar-wise to refer to the extra time required and the dark colors achieved during the natural fermentation of maduro wrappers called "sweating". Typically these wrappers are oily, plush with flavor, and earthy to the nose. Also there is a process by which a method is used to darken the pigment of the wrapper called "cooking" and there is another process called dyeing which we've heard about...a machine called the Maud U Matic which colors the wrapper quickly and sugar is added to the molasses like dye....this is where we see the faint color on our lips and fingers and this process is what most enthusiasts balk at and rightly so.