Iraq - Part 2
Rain
Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 8,761
What do you guys think about what's going on over there?I'd volunteer in a heartbeat if they decide to send troops back, but I hope we limit our involvement to drone strikes. I saw this in an article and it made me sad thbrat someone actually feels this way.Tom Lord, a 60-year-old retired firefighter from Fort Lauderdale, Florida, who was visiting Manhattan's 9/11 memorial Friday, said he supports the new bombing, even though he disagrees with most of Obama's other decisions.
"I would hope they send troops, but I don't believe Obama will. We need to go over there and establish peace again, or at least try to," he said."Lord supported the original 2003 invasion. He thought the latest problems were a result of Obama pulling troops out too soon: "They needed to train up the Iraqis more than they did. They pulled out way too soon and now look what happened."Seriously? We tried that for a decade. You can't help a nation that is corrupt and does not even want your help. How long do we need to train a police force and army that has no problems killing our soldiers?
Comments
Why are we even bothering?
No offense, but we have a tendency to stick out noses in and it only costs us in the long run.
Hopefully this is a wake up call and good will come from it. The ones that wanted America to step back should have known this would happen. Handed the Iraqi's the keys to the the car before they knew how to drive, they crashed. We should have left bases in Iraq, for security and stability. Keep a strong presence in those areas as a deterrent to others wanting to be big brother too.
When the liberals and terrorists start to whine, we must be doing the right thing. Maybe Obama will have an epiphany and realize that a strong America is good for the world. A pissed off America is even better.
Yer not gonna civilize em. That's a feckless daydream. Just put your boot on their necks and hold them down while you can. Let the press and the Left bitsch and moan,,. they will anyway. All you can do.
Or else step back and turn a deaf ear. That works for me too. Can't win em all.
Otherwise the problem will continue in perpetuity.
Afghanistan, on the other hand, Brits went up there, said: "This is a worthless dust bowl", and pulled back. Later on, in the Gulf, they carved out a triangle from the oil fields to the coast, and let the rest of that mess go on about its business. Not even worth an Irishman.
In this instance, do we have the innerds it takes to make this pay? We could take the place easy enough. We've proven that. There's oil, we know that. But do we have the guts to trade a half dozen cripples a day for forty years until we have pumped the darn place dry? Dry in itself would be a wonderful outcome. If the Arab world didn't happen to sit on oil, they would be irrelevant and poor, thus not a problem to us. Can you imagine us predatory enough to do it? Or would we have to pretend we are there to "rebuild" the place?
We do not possess the stoic phlegm of the English. Our national character is too idealistic to be good imperialists.
All good points especially do we have the "innerds" to complete the task. You gave some good examples of Imperialism & colonization, whereas I was thinking more along the lines of the classical crusades. Richard the lion hearted et al
Rough figures but in the ballpark...There are 117 armed conflicts going on in the world today. Out of those 117, 100 involve islam on one or both sides of the conflict. Take care of islam and you provide a greater chance of world peace
Of course we don't have the "innerds" to do a classical crusade even if it would provide a measure of world peace in our modern world.
There are 1.6 billion Muslims in the world today, and because of their higher birthrates they are likely to outnumber Christians within a generation or two. Of these, most likely 98% of them lead peaceful lives and present no threat at all to U.S. citizens or interests. Just how would one "take care of Islam" and provide a greater chance of world piece given that Muslims represent nearly a quarter of the world's population?
"98% of them lead peaceful lives and present no threat at all to US citizens or interests" The statistics of armed conflicts presently in the world and how a majority of those involve islam on one or both sides contradict your "it's mainly a religion of peace and doesn't pose a threat to the world or it's citizens."
just my 2 cents
Terrorist attacks, honor killings, be-headings, rapes of children, kidnapping 100s of children, disfiguring women and God knows what else. 1.6 billion and they want to plant their flag on OUR White House. 1.6 billion and not even a small percentage standing up to what the rest of the world considers to be totally barbaric acts. XXXXXXXXXX politicians in this country and others trying to get sharia courts established. muslim riots the world over for no other reason then they are muslims. And they have learned to rip off the welfare systems the world over. Look to England if you think they are not a threat. You have made the most absurd statement of the year, far ahead of reid, obozo, pelosi, waters, and the rest of them.
I truly find your words chilling. I have met hundreds of Muslims over the years--at work, at social occasions, at college, in my school growing up, in my kids schools, in my travels outside the U.S., at kids' sporting events, in my neighborhood, at parades and other civic events. And although I don't agree with many of the practices of Islam, and I don't share their views of the Israel-Palestinian conflict, I have never once heard a single Muslim I've met carry on about destroying America, setting up Sharia courts in the U.S., or any violent activity. And just about every Muslim I've met in the U.S. is as patriotic as anyone else I've met--and I'd say I've met just as many Muslims who are Republicans as Democrats.
Of course Islamic terrorism and fanaticism are among the biggest threats in the world today and shoiuld be dealt with by whatever means is possible short of blatant genocide. But not all Muslims are fanatics bent on destroying the western world as we know it. And to condemn an entire religion--and a people--based on the actions of its worst fanatics is an even more terrifying proposition. Millions of my people have been slaughtered over the centuries because of this same line of reasoning.
Always going to be wars but what are they fought for really? In the bad old days wars were fought for domination and growth of their particular ideas, or ways, and expansion of the countries land. Kinda like what Russia is doing now in Ukraine and ISIS in Iraq, maybe if they are that organized. Even Sadam invading Kuwiat made sense in the traditional war mentality of land/power grab. And yes we went in for the oil too, but to keep things stable and flowing for our, and the world, economy. We rebuilt the burning wells and gave them back. Weapons of mass destruction was not a good excuse for the second war but once you commit then go balls to the wall until it's over. Quicker the better.
America is the only country to ever beat the crap out of quite a few countries, help them rebuild and basically give it back to them, probably better than before. Germany and Japan for instance. Before America this was never the case. Most of them are now trading partners with pretty good economies, based on the free market and capitalism to a point. Probably could have gotten Iraq on track, but it would have taken many years. I think most countries would see the advantages of our system eventually and have a vested interest in their own. We are valued for our freedom of choice but many have no idea how to exercise this, never had to. Dictators don't see it this way, they want all the power and land and try and stop the spread of freedoms. Putin's intentions are pretty clear.
The terrorist's must have Muslims scared, not many speaking out about how fanatical these guys are. The terrorists are fighting a different kind of war, one of complete annihilation of people because of their beliefs. They just want to get bigger and destroy, mostly Catholics for now it seems. Eventually after everyone else is gone they will destroy themselves too, that's all they know.
Apologies for rambling on, too much coffee today
I too have met & lived with hundreds of muslims over the years at work, at social functions, etc etc in various countries throughout the middle east. I have yet to meet any of your so called 98% of the "peaceful" people, in fact just the opposite. You show the Daniel Pearl video or any other guesome death of a westerner in any middle east marketplace and 98% of the people will clap cheer hoot and holler like they are at a soccer match. If you believing they are peaceful & we should "coexist" or any other touchy feely warm fuzzy feelings help you sleep at night then so be it. They will slit your warm caring throat in a heartbeat and guess what..It wouldn't even be a crime since you are an infidel
The mosque across the street turned out to be a meeting place for some of the conspirators.
When the first building came down a delivery driver caught the owners of a bar (liquor and muslims?) rejoicing in a very loud manner. Needless to say they weren't in business for long.
A year later getting a hoagie for lunch and some news about another bombing and the muslim in line could not keep his mouth shut about how glad he was. I have never seen someone run so fast.
A number of muslim women go on TV and talk about how they are treated and then go into hiding because they will be murdered for speaking out.
I worked closely with 3 muslims before I retired and one day I flat out asked one of them would he come to work and kill his co-workers if his religious leader told him to. The silence was deafening.
How many more do you need?
What chills you the most, oh I know, every statement I made is true.
Now you got me all wound up before my fist coffee is done, I need a cigar, lol.
I agree with a little of what everyone here said. I dont want boots on the ground, but if we do Im ok with bombing until we run out of bombs. This said---I would prefer we leave and say good luck and stop sticking our noses where they dont belong. I also agree with Rain that most Muslims are peaceful and good people (some are scum)....no scarier as a whole to me that the select right wing Evangelicals that pollute this country----each religion has their god, and no one has claimed more lives over time than him/her. The flip side, again, if were going to bomb there are going to be women and children and innocent people dead-----hundreds or thousands. If you can deal with that, proceed. If you cannot, move on. Staying in between and trying to find ground everyone can agree on is like screwing two girls at the same time....sounds like a good idea, but ultimately someone gets cheated.
Aj
We are in a war, or whatever they are calling it, that is not traditional ground gaining by invasion. This is different and we must adapt, especially on the propaganda aspects. Airstrikes should be targeting their resources as well as their Toyota's. Economically go after the oil ISIS make's tons of money from, the taxes they collect from Christians will soon run out. Intel, we need the best intel on the ground, our intel, not theirs. Choke off their re-supply routes and wipe out those that are resupplying them. If there is a city or other target with civilians/children maybe drop leaflets prior, then level it if you have to. When it's all done they will rebuild, up to them to keep it, it's yours but you better behave. Also use everything at our disposal, not just militarily. Drill baby drill, start a cyberwar, anything.
And secure the border.