Am I a smoker?

Just curious what you guys think. I had to fill out some medical forms and one of the questions was are you a smoker? I have never had a cigerette in my life and don't intend too, But i have a couple of cigars a month. What would you have said? Does occasional cigar smoking constitute being a smoker?

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j0z3r

A couple a month? No, I don't think that would count as being a smoker...at best it sounds like you occasionally partake, which means it is not a habit or need that drives you.

4bob4

Definately not. Especially as far as insurance is concerned. It's like when you go in for surgery they ask do you drink alcohol. They don't really care if you drink socially it's more a question or are you an alcoholic.

nightmaremike31

It's funny, I've been seeing the same doctor almost 10 times out of the year for about 4 years now, and we go over all my issues and what not, and he literally laughs everytime I tell him I try to make it a point to have one a week. He says that if I was having 2 to 5 a day, every day of the year, then yes I would be smoker.

So from my stand point, you are not a smoker either.

eyegofler18@comcast.net

Please understand people, do not advise that indulging in a cigar "once in a while" defines you as a "non-smoker". Indeed, ANY form of tobacco use is considered as a "smoker". I guess Clinton was not a smoker because he "didnt inhale". oh please,.Your doctor has the answer, not an uninformed forum.

j0z3r

eyegofler18@comcast.net:
Your doctor has the answer, not an uninformed forum.

I think you said it all right there. You don't have the answer any more than the rest of us do, and yet somehow what you say carries more weight? Are you his doctor?

jsnake

eyegofler18@comcast.net:
not an uninformed forum.

What is up with all the trolls signing up to post 1 asinine statement? This forum is well informed and part of the reason it is here is to support and inform each other. Instead of simply writing that you should bring this subject up with your doctor and discuss it with him you call us all stupid? Nice.

My suggestion is to discuss the situation honestly with your doctor. Those blanket forms don't explain your situation well. I often leave things blank and talk it over with the doctor and let him mark the form as he likes.

eyegofler18@comcast.net

No, I dont claim the right answers, but I do know how insurance companies underwrite. You must understand that when blood levels are taken, alcohol and tobacco play a big part in the result. So please don't think a cigar is "OK" when it comes to medical. Tobacco affects oxygen in the body. Whether you agree or not is fine with me. I am not a doctor, but I know about these issues.

dennisking

eyegofler18@comcast.net:
I am not a doctor, but I know about these issues.

great. do you know about the ability to lie. since a person who enjoys a cigar once a week probably won't have any evidence in their bloodstream, i think saying "no i don't smoke" is probably a safe answer.

jsnake

eyegofler18@comcast.net:
No, I dont claim the right answers, but I do know how insurance companies underwrite. You must understand that when blood levels are taken, alcohol and tobacco play a big part in the result. So please don't think a cigar is "OK" when it comes to medical. Tobacco affects oxygen in the body. Whether you agree or not is fine with me. I am not a doctor, but I know about these issues.

Your opinion on the matter is fine. If you have some kind of medical background or are knowledgeable on the subject just say so. People would be more receptive to your answer to the question. I just took offense to you saying this is an uniformed forum when that is far from the truth. I agree you shouldn't be getting medical advice from a cigar forum per se but to ask the advice of others is what our little brotherhood is about. I am not offended by your advice and I agree that you need to communicate what you are doing with your doctor. Questionnaire asks do you drink. I always leave it blank and tell my doctor while I do not drink regularly this is what I have consumed in the past year. If you do not divulge truthful information to your doctor are you really getting honest advice from him? On an insurance form I would not say I am a smoker. When I think of smoker I think of cigarettes and I am sure that is what insurance companies are getting after. I smoke a cigar sometimes once a week, once a month, 3 times a week, etc. I am not dependent on cigars and having to light one up every hour. All just my opinion though. Best advice is talk to your doctor.

nightmaremike31

j0z3r:
eyegofler18@comcast.net:
Your doctor has the answer, not an uninformed forum.
I think you said it all right there. You don't have the answer any more than the rest of us do, and yet somehow what you say carries more weight? Are you his doctor?

Thank you Joe, Jake, Bobby, Dennis and havefun79.

We are here because we love cigars and want to share and know other peoples thoughts, views, experiences and so many other wonderful things about each other that revolve around our common ground. CIGARS.

Do you like cigars MR. and/or MRS. "eyegolfer18@comcast.net"? ... If that's even your real name...

havefun79

I have mentioned to my doctor in conversation about the cigar smoking and he said in essence no big deal, but this was just a general medical information survey. I just wondered what other cigar smokers think. I tried to put occasional cigars but they wanted a yes or no answer. I dont think that I am a smoker as I am not addicted to them, but wondered what others who enjoy them would say.

Lasabar

eyegofler18@comcast.net:
Please understand people, do not advise that indulging in a cigar "once in a while" defines you as a "non-smoker". Indeed, ANY form of tobacco use is considered as a "smoker". I guess Clinton was not a smoker because he "didnt inhale". oh please,.Your doctor has the answer, not an uninformed forum.

Please understand, as a new poster, that the question is that whether he was a "Smoker" or not...
If you ask the question: Are you a Non-Smoker, That implies that you abstain from ALL tobacco products
But if you ask the question: Are you a Smoker, that, to me, implies do you have a habit of smoking enough to qualify for a "Yes"

Also note, that as an avid cigar smoker (2-3 a week) I have participated in MANY forums and discussions and seen lots of research that goes both ways (you can even use the "search" function on the forums here to see some of these posts) on cigars and smoking and since I partake in smoking as a hobby NOT an addiction these concerns are very valid and studied for they are a personal stake for me. So please, do not come here on these forums and use the term "Un-informed"... I know there is someone out there that knows more than I do so you may use the term "UNDER-Informed" but then you could say the same thing about all doctors...

eyegofler18@comcast.net:
No, I dont claim the right answers, but I do know how insurance companies underwrite. You must understand that when blood levels are taken, alcohol and tobacco play a big part in the result. So please don't think a cigar is "OK" when it comes to medical. Tobacco affects oxygen in the body. Whether you agree or not is fine with me. I am not a doctor, but I know about these issues.

I appreciate your views and I am also WAAAY under-informed about insurance companies and I don't doubt you know what you are talking about... and I'm not a doctor either but I also know about these issues and such and the big deck of cards can be stacked in a bad bad way for some people... the only real debate is whether you think that when you get sick if you claim will get denied due to the insurance company finding out about your cigars... In my family I have a history of Blood clots, Anuirisms, cancer and diabetes... But I still smoke and am proud of it, yet when I do fill out new Health insurance forms I will put that I'm a smoker, not because of my 2-3 a week, but because I plan to smoke MORE than that as I get older and I don't want any one of those conditions I mentioned to get denied because Big Brother Insurance found a Xikar lighter in my pocket after I collapsed.

That being said if you have a link to a article that tells of insurance and smoking I'd like to read it,

oh! and stick around awhile and post some more

Lasabar

I think I butchered Aneurysms...... ooops

kingjk729

I love the trolls that sign up for 2 asinine posts

Hawk55

WOW...that was a hot one. Good question with a lot of good answers. Guess if the truth were told insurance companies would get off with not making many payouts....

j0z3r

eyegofler18@comcast.net:
No, I dont claim the right answers, but I do know how insurance companies underwrite. You must understand that when blood levels are taken, alcohol and tobacco play a big part in the result. So please don't think a cigar is "OK" when it comes to medical. Tobacco affects oxygen in the body. Whether you agree or not is fine with me. I am not a doctor, but I know about these issues.

See that should have been stated at the beginning I think. Your opinion is welcome, don't let anyone tell you otherwise, but certain verbiage in your first post can tend to rub people the wrong way, such as the word " un-informed" used to describe those of us that had posted.

You have to understand that it is a matter of opinion that the question pertained to, not an insurance company criteria or a doctor's criteria, therefore all the answers were in regard to whether we thought he qualified as our opinion of what a smoker is.

dennisking

i think we ran him out....

kuzi16

eyegofler18@comcast.net:
.Your doctor has the answer, not an uninformed forum.

I may be uninformed, however this isnt... and neither is this
my health insurance policy has me listed as a non smoker and to prove it all i have to do is pass a urine test every fer years. I get a months notice.

i am not a "smoker" i am a cigar enthusiast

...and my agent knows just how much i smoke. its my father in law

j0z3r

Great links there. I was unaware of an EPA study and equally unaware of how "credible" it is/was. It makes you wonder how often the EPA has "fudged" the numbers to make a study work for them.

BStayer

Well, I have to chime on this one since this is right up my ally. First, my credibility...I work for a national health and life agency and I manage about 2,000 independent insurance brokers nationwide. I provide support to these agents who have questions about everything health and life, so in order to keep my job, I have to have the answers. I also am an independent broker who is licensed in 6 states who brokers insurance on the side. This does not make me the definitive answer here, but maybe I can shed some light on some things...hopefully :-)

The original poster did not mention that this was for insurance, for all we know, it could have been a doctor's office. We really don't know. In case it is a dr.'s office, it would be the doctor who is asking. The poster would then have to answer according to the dr.'s definition of what a smoker is.

If it IS a health carrier that he is referring too, then he has to answer according to the health carrier's definition. Unfortunately, most health carriers state that any tobacco use within the last 12 mos. constitutes someone as a tobacco user. If they find tobacco substances in the client's body at time of claim and the client stated on the app they are not a tobacco user, the health carrier can rescind the policy (meaning they will refund all premiums paid and deny the claim). They can do this because the client wasn't honest on the app. This equates to not having insurance at all. Now of course, anyone can answer the app as they want, but is it worth the risk? That's the question we have to ask ourselves. For me? Saving an average of $50 a month doesn't compare to a $100,000 or $1,000,000 claim that I would have to pay out of my pocket. Again, that's just me.

If by chance, this is in reference to a life insurance carrier, things are different. If they find tobacco in the body in the event of a claim, they will take premiums paid and subtract that amount from the tobacco premiums that should have been paid. They then take this amount, subtract it from the benefit amount and pay that to the beneficiary.

I.E. Premiums paid over 'x' amount of years = $4,000
Tobacco Premiums that would have been paid if listed as a tobacco user = $5,000
Difference = $1,000
Benefit amount of policy = $250,000
Actual benefit paid to beneficiary at time of claim = $249,000
This is just an example...this dose not represent an accurate rate up for tobacco use.

So, unfortunately, our grumpy poster who told everyone that they were uninformed was correct. Not in saying that we're uninformed, but he was correct in stating that to a health carrier, we are smokers. But he was brash, audacious, offensive and even a bit presumptuous in his accusations. And I don't appreciate the light he has put on brokers, such as myself.

My whole point being, it depends on whose asking. We are not granted the luxury of defining ourselves as smoker or not.

Hawk55

Great post BSayer...I would say that yours qualified as an "informed" opinion. The guy may have used a term that just ruffled everyones feathers, whenever such definitive terms as "uninformed" are used they sound like indictments and causes some feedback that the user may not be looking for> At any rate thanks for taking the high road in your post.

BStayer

Hawk55:
WOW...that was a hot one. Good question with a lot of good answers. Guess if the truth were told insurance companies would get off with not making many payouts....

Truth is, insurance is a business. Business and profit is what this country runs on. Even something so important as your health and life is a business. You are right, insurance carriers do not want to pay out claims. Not only does it eat into their profits, but more importantly, it eats into their 'operating expenses'.

Think about this. If you're a business owner and you restore old hot rods. Each hot rod costs an average of $50,000 to restore (car enthusiasts, insert any number here to make it accurate). Would you be willing to sell that for 10% of the cost? If you did that, how long would you be in business? Same thing goes for health insurance. Average premiums in our country run from $3600 to $7000 annually per household on the individual side (not group). One organ transplant costs upwards of $1,000,000, cancer usually runs anywhere from $300,000 to $500,000 and even higher. The carrier has to have almost 143 policies that pay $7000 annually (with no payouts, not even copays) to make up the cost of an organ transplant. This does not cover the expense of man hours it takes to process the claim, postage of notices and bills sent or any other expense other than the cost of the procedure itself.

Of course, organ transplants are fairly rare. But for $300k in cancer claims (a far more common scenario), it would take around 43 policies (again, with absolutely no benefits paid out) to make up the difference of the expense, again, not counting for the expenses to process such claims.

People who work with insurance do so to provide for their families in the same way everyone else goes to work to make a living. I broker insurance not because it was what I've wanted to do since I was 6, but because I need to pay for a house and for food for my little girls. It's the pursuit of profit that has made our country such a premier place to seek medical attention. And it's the profit that enables health carriers to pay exhuberant claims that we otherwise, would have no way of paying for.

phobicsquirrel

Another reason why we have our balls in a grinder. It's up to you what to put, but I would say having a few a week does not make you a smoker. Though like everything there is some type of risk. I don't recall if much proof of whether you smoked a cigar would last long in your blood. Does anyone know if nicotine is a standard screen done at the time of a normal Blood Test?

4bob4

And what of second hand smoke? Are these tests that are run at the time of a claim able to differentiate (sp?) between first and second hand smoke?