I have a political question.
Matt Marvel
Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 930
Hey everyone. If I could, I would like to get your opinion on something. If I feel inclined to vote independent or third party, do you think I'm throwing my vote away? I personally do not, but I wanted to see what you all think, because there's some pretty intelligent people here. Someone made the argument to me that voting for a lost cause is throwing my vote away. But I feel that if I have no faith at all in either candidate, and if I feel the bipartisan system is failing our country, then I would be throwing it away by voting for a Republican or Democrat. I also feel that thinking third parties or independents are a lost cause is exactly why bipartisanship is in the state it's in, or one of the reasons anyway.
So, what are you thoughts and opinions on this?
Comments
If your Ralph Nader (or whomever your candidate of choice might be) piles up, say, 4% of the vote, and the eventual outcome of the presidential election is close, your 4% has essentially won by making a very powerful statement. The candidate for office in an upcoming election, on either side (Republican or Democrat) would be well-advised to listen to the 4% of you that voted for the 3rd party candidate, as your votes are enough to potentially alter the outcome of that next election.
The problem with the argument that you are "throwing your vote away" is that it narrow-mindedly looks at the outcome of this one election as the only result. As they say, Rome wasn't built in a day. You're not going to make sweeping changes to the underlying biases in the political structure of this country simply by going out and casting a vote. But you are helping to demonstrate the growth in a trend that, if it continues, cannot be ignored. If changing the world were as easy as stepping into a curtain-walled cubicle and pushing a couple of buttons, you'd think we'd have made a lot more progress by this point.
I'm not saying you shouldn't. I've felt the same way as you before. But I think, for better or worse, we'll be choosing between a Dem and Rep for a long time to come and the best way for people to affect change is to elect people at all levels of government within those parties who best meet your criteria. Or run yourself. Or advocate as a citizen or part of an organization for legislation, etc. that you're a proponent of.
And third party candidates usually don't bring practical plans and ideas. They're like second string quaterbacks, who are often the most popular player on a football team going through a poor quarterback. For instance, I have a feeling people are going to start clamoring for Rex Grossman in Chicago.
I've actually devised a system of government that is an improvement on our traditional democratic system. I'd share it here, but it takes too long to type it out. I'll share it with you over a cigar at Kuzifest.
All that needs to be said to counter you argument Luko is that the Republican party started as a third party.
Off topic: It was either that or Kuzipalooza which, IMO is even better... but it felt a little awkward since I am still in the process of celebrating a differentpalooza these days
The point isn't that a Libertarian or Green Party candidate needs to WIN the election... it's not all about winning or losing that election. In fact, it isn't AT ALL about winning or losing that election. If a significant percentage of voters (i.e. a greater percentage than the margin of victory) cast their vote in favor of a 3rd party candidate, then the representatives of the major parties would need to factor into their future strategy/agenda the ideals of that third party candidate. That's the point I'm trying to make in my first post. It's not necessarily about getting enough votes to win. It's about getting enough votes to be relevant. Ask Gore fans how relevant they feel third party votes were in 2000.
That election is a great example of how a 3rd party candidate can indirectly influence future elections. Many of Nader's pet issues from that campaign (such as campaign refinance reform, universal healthcare) have taken center stage in this year's election. Both parties have developed their platform to include a position on these issues in order to put forth a solution they hope will appeal to this demographic. This group has a high likelihood of being the pivotal voting set in this year's election.
did i miss something while i was on vacation?
i may vote for Bob Barr. Im not throwing my vote away if i vote my values. John does not represent what i want. Barrack is the evil opposite of what i think government is all about. Bob is damn close to what i want. It would be a waste for me NOT to vote for him.
Iduno though. Im still undecided. there are many factors that i still need to think about. However McCain picking Palin is kind of a step in the right direction. She is more conservative he is and i like that, though i do not consider myself a "conservative"
time will tell?
Edit: I had to capitalize Quest because if you read to quickly it might look a little Brokeback
another point:
abraham lincoln was a third party. he was the first repiblican ever elected. Good things CAN come out of a third party
not sayin the republicans as a group are good... lincoln was good. I hope that clarified any confusion.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraham_Lincoln
not sayin that place is always right, its just what i found.
this is also from the view point of a non-religious person.
sub-prime mortgages did not come from strictly one side ot the other. it just happened that it became a problem during a republicans term. Happy coincidence for the dems.
Still, I adhere to the second string quarterback theory. Most of these fringe guys look good because of the poor quality of the big party candidates. But I'd love to see some serious, third-party candidates with substance get more than cursory coverage from the media.
Whoa, I'll definitely bring sumpin. You guys Like Arn City Beer? I could bring some Yueng, PA is the home of the brewery in Pottstown (the oldest in these United States).
By that I mean to say, Bush saying he had a long conversation with god before deciding to invade iraq (come on). I also mean the fact that federal funding for sex education in school is ONLY for those classes that teach abstinence only. I also mean the fact that he wont fund embryonic stem cell research, when even a lot of his own people are for it, on religious grounds. The hiring/firing of U.S. attorneys based on their religious guidings on issues such as aborition and gay marriage.
Its not about having an opinion on these matters, its thats he uses the power of his office regarding these matters. I think tolerance and respect comes when both sides have the respect to acknowledge the others position, without using the power of government to pander to your own or to make a statement. The federal government was never designed for that buisness.
I know some might feel im dead wrong here, but thats just my opinion.
there are plenty of people that dont believe in god but dont want abortion and are homophobic.
lets face it, a large percentage of americans ARE followers of Jesus. we (as a nation) have always elected a President who does too.
To me, religion is a compass and lets me know which direction I should go. HE leads me/us through things not only for our own growth but also to show us that HE is always there, even in the end to pick us up and dust us off. So as far as his presidential duties are concerned, they are not just Bush's they are God's also. HE leads this man that lead our country, I'm not saying that Bush has always gotten the message right because I don't know what God has told him. However, it would scare me if we ever had a president that truely did not believe in God.
I don't want to sound like a crazy zealot, I don't want to force people to believe what I believe. I just wish more people would believe it though. Christianity has gone down in this country over the last several decades. I think you could say that the decline has effected the social and cultural make-up of our country greatly, causing there to be a decline on other levels also. Just my opinion...