So what happened between Rocky and the warehouse?

Vidarien

It was suggested on the sister that theres been some fallout between RP and the forces that be, which is why Rocky daily deals of any kind have essentially disappeared, kind of like what happened with Cusano a year back or so. I was just wondering if there was any truth to any of this because RP has essentially disappeared from the radar when it comes to deals etc. Not to say I mind because I only really liked 3 or so of his new-brand-a-week blends, but still its kind of odd how his stuff has just kind of disappeared from being spoken about.

stephen_hannibal

Rockys blends suck maybe someone woke up and tasted the tobacco....

Krieg

stephen_hannibal:

Rockys blends suck maybe someone woke up and tasted the tobacco....

LoL...oh man...that was harsh

brizzzine

stephen_hannibal:

Rockys blends suck maybe someone woke up and tasted the tobacco....

haha true

wwhwang

stephen_hannibal:

Rockys blends suck maybe someone woke up and tasted the tobacco....

+1. Only 3 blends were good from Rocky. The Decade changed when they moved factories. The Summer 2008 and REO were discontinued (though the remnants of the REO can still be found here). Some of the other blends? Well. they turn my hands and lips brown and taste like a bag of pennies :P

Heavy

I think there was a RP daily deal or some sort of deal recently. Or maybe it was when I made my last order, I think there was one of those 'add-on' deals that they offer before you check out - it was an RP sampler. This was just a few days ago.

skweekz

I agree. Quality seems to have....gone way downhill.

Vidarien

wwhwang:

stephen_hannibal:

Rockys blends suck maybe someone woke up and tasted the tobacco....

+1. Only 3 blends were good from Rocky. The Decade changed when they moved factories. The Summer 2008 and REO were discontinued (though the remnants of the REO can still be found here). Some of the other blends? Well. they turn my hands and lips brown and taste like a bag of pennies :P

I thought it was just me on that but you are absolutely right on the decade. The original decade when it was still something you had to call-in for and nobody knew much about it....that decade was spectacular. Then as usual with rocky...he started selling a crapload of a good product and did something to junk up the recipe/production, either to increase output or margin. As a result, the decade as it is now...is something i dont have much interest in.



Maybe the moral of the story (aside of not turning into a RP or Gurkha buisness model just to sell more) is to save a couple cigars from a really special blend in your humidor for the long-term, just in case the producer decides to ruin it after it gets too popular.

bigharpoon

Vidarien:

wwhwang:

stephen_hannibal:

Rockys blends suck maybe someone woke up and tasted the tobacco....

+1. Only 3 blends were good from Rocky. The Decade changed when they moved factories. The Summer 2008 and REO were discontinued (though the remnants of the REO can still be found here). Some of the other blends? Well. they turn my hands and lips brown and taste like a bag of pennies :P

I thought it was just me on that but you are absolutely right on the decade. The original decade when it was still something you had to call-in for and nobody knew much about it....that decade was spectacular. Then as usual with rocky...he started selling a crapload of a good product and did something to junk up the recipe/production, either to increase output or margin. As a result, the decade as it is now...is something i dont have much interest in.



Maybe the moral of the story (aside of not turning into a RP or Gurkha buisness model just to sell more) is to save a couple cigars from a really special blend in your humidor for the long-term, just in case the producer decides to ruin it after it gets too popular.

So that's what happened? Damn! I loved the decade when they first came out and bought a bunch more when I needed to resupply. Ever since then I kept thinking "these things suck, I used to think they were so good. Now they just taste bitter." I'm finally out of them but I've been scratching my head ever since.

kuzi16

Tobacco is a vintage sensitive item. a cigar that is supposed to be as "signature" and exclusive as the decade, the 15th, etc are using special tobacco. this tobacco cannot be replaced once gone. if Rocky wants to continue the line something will have to change.



on that note, the only Patel cigar that i truly liked was the OSG. the Nording was good as well but that wasnt 100% rocky so i cant say that it is "his" blend. i can see why others are into RP, i just cant get behind his blending style.

Russ55

Uh oh, a bash rocky thread. I don't want to get started so I'll just quote this:

kuzi16:

i can see why others are into RP, i just cant get behind his blending style.

And say, me too.

gaberox

I thought Patel Bros was pretty good. Used to love 90,92, sungrown and the Decade. Figured I just grew out of em.

drpepperdude

Interesting. I'm holding in my hand right now a 90+ rated Rocky Patel sampler offer pamphlet from Cigar.com.

Definitely going to take them up on it since I love the few Rocky Patel cigars I've smoked.
In fact, I'll always have a box worth of Vintage 1999's in my humidor.

To each his or her own!

WoWAddict99

From what I was told by someone in the industry is that Rocky finally saw that the crazy deals that were being put out on his stuff not only damaged his brand but also hurt the B&M's which are still the bread and butter for manufacturers. Knowing this Rocky made all online retailors sign a contract saying they would no longer go below a certain set price. Who would want to see thier stuff always being a companies' loss leader?

mfotis

I guess we'll need to wait for Alex to put his 2 cents in to know what really happened.

kuzi16

WoWAddict99:

From what I was told by someone in the industry is that Rocky finally saw that the crazy deals that were being put out on his stuff not only damaged his brand but also hurt the B&M's which are still the bread and butter for manufacturers. Knowing this Rocky made all online retailors sign a contract saying they would no longer go below a certain set price. Who would want to see thier stuff always being a companies' loss leader?

though this wouldnt surprise me, i feel that the vast number of blends put out by RP hurts the name more than the price point... or even "sale point"

there are plenty of brands out there that are inexpensive that have nothing but respect on this and many other boards. (5 vegas, Cu-Avana, Sancho Panza, etc...) these brands dont have 50, 60, or 100 different blends to their name.
the perception is summed up in the concept:
"Jack of all trades, master of none"
it doesnt matter if that sentiment is true, its the perception that counts. perception is everything in a business like this, and (ive heard this a million time in my business) perception is reality.

the more blends that come out, the more the existing blends get muddied in peoples minds (was that the Renaissance or the Patel Bros? ) ... especially since there is a very distinct blending style in most RP cigars.
this leads to people not caring about many, if not all blends. who cares if you cant remember what one it is or if it doesnt taste THAT much different than 5 other cigars in the brand

Russ55

I'll try and be objective about this. For me, it wasn't that he's got a ton of lines, though I completely agree with you about the perception of it, it was when the lines he had changed. Decade, 1990, 1992, etc. To me those were brand defining labels, and when they were altered it completely killed it for me. I understand about vintage tobaccos and such, but it's neither here nor there. The cigar I loved changed. It would have been better to make it a limited edition and just say "when it's gone it's gone" instead of changing it and not acknowledging it. Then I could have at least stocked up, and I'd know what I was getting into. In a way I'm glad he didn't. It turned me onto so many other brands that I love.

madurofan

I'll start of by saying I know NOTHING about what this thread was started for. But I do know a bit about RP and have probably smoked more or as many of his cigars as anyone on this board. Kuzi and I had a RP vs. Gurkha joke/rivalry for a long time, with me being the RP side of it. But now I'd be willing to go out on a limb here (without having spoken to Kuz about it) and say not a single RP nor Gurkha is in either of our top 5's and probably not in our top 10's.

Most Gurkha's never suited my taste and it used to be they had a distinct creamy flavor. Now they've got so many cigars out there everyone could find one that they like.

Unfortunately Rocky went this same way. Rocky used to have a distinct flavor as well now he's all over the board. There are still some good cigars out there, Edge Sumatra and Patel Bros come to mind. But I can't pick up an RP cigar anymore and know 9 times out of 10 I'll like it. It used to be that way for me. It wasn't that he made my all time favorites but he was my go to brand. Now I have to ask someone who's had one about it before I'll try a new one. A lot has changed for the RP brand, first off he continued making cigars that were very specifically named (and should have been limited) long after that tobacco ran out (1990, 1992, 1999).
Second he changed where cigars were made and by whom they were made and in a lot of cases completely changed where he got the tobacco from. I can't even get into this without going on my rant about how cigars should be labeled with years just like Wine is.

Finally and most importantly, IMHO, Rocky parted ways with the guy who blended all those original award winning cigars. Jesus FuegoI've since discovered that it wasn't RP cigars that I liked it was Jesus Fuego. Again he doesn't have any cigars in my top 5 and only one that debateable for my top 10 but I know I can reach for a J. Fuego and enjoy in 9 times out of 10.

For anyone that used to be a RP fan like I was try a J.Fuego. They aren't the easiest to come by as he handles his own distribution but they're worth it.



If you really want to get me on a rant just ask me how I feel about Pete Johnson and Tatuaje .... speaking of which I need to remove this tatuaje signature ...

Ken Light

WoWAddict99:

Who would want to see thier stuff always being a companies' loss leader?

Are you kidding?? I'd take that deal in a second! Not only is the company moving a ton of your product but also a huge percentage of their sales are going to have your cigars in the box! You might say that his cigars looks cheap, or look like they can't sell for MSRP, but I don't think most people that buy sale cigars think the cigar they are getting is a cheap cigar either. Remember that with online sales, the customer by and large has to sell himself on the product, and he'll typically do this in a positive manner. So, instead, they're buying into the sale precisely because they believe they are getting a higher priced, quality cigar at a price they cannot resist. They're buying quality for cheap.

So he gets:
a) His cigar in most of his merchants' customers humidors
b) A boost in sales, at his normal price to the merchant
c) A perception of quality by those customers

Honestly, if Rocky has a problem with that, he should just close up shop and do something else, because he has no business sense whatsoever.

nikostewart

madurofan:

If you really want to get me on a rant just ask me how I feel about Pete Johnson and Tatuaje .... speaking of which I need to remove this tatuaje signature ...

Without Hijacking this thread, How do you feel about PJ and Tatuaje? Just interested. Thanks

dowjr1

+1 on the comment about the Patel Bros being good. I just landed two boxes of them and am PUMPED bc they are great. I also have some Vinatage 92s as well that are solid. I haven't smoked a ton of the others....Edge is solid.

Alex Svenson

Yes there is a new policy in place with rocky Patel which sets prices and will no longer allow us to do deals on his cigars. This was not just a contract for internet and catalog but for all accounts nationwide including stores. It amounts to a 10% max discount off msrp. While I certainly respect the decision they made, I do believe a fair amount of customers will move brands as this changes the price customers were willing to Pay before they won't pay now. I hope people stay loyal for rockys sake, but I guess we will have to see what the market decide. In terms on retail being the bread and butter for a brand I disagree. Mail order represents over 60% of the industry and the truth is the stores rely on fayalite and fayalite rely on stores. Just my .02

madurofan

nikostewart:

madurofan:

If you really want to get me on a rant just ask me how I feel about Pete Johnson and Tatuaje .... speaking of which I need to remove this tatuaje signature ...

Without Hijacking this thread, How do you feel about PJ and Tatuaje? Just interested. Thanks

Deep Breath ...

I used to be a total Tatuaje whore. Pete had the Midas touch for me, everything he did was awesome. Probably still is. I mean one of my top 3 cigars is still the Tat Cojonu 2003. His cigars are still good to me but his damned business model pisses me off. Without going overboard I'll explain. I chased down a Tat Black then the Ghost Cigar (El Truinfador) then first Halloween cigar. Now it seems everytime I turn around I'm supposed to be chasing down some new limited edition, hard to find cigar.

Don't get me wrong I enjoy a limited edition cigar if there is a reason for it, i.e. Carillo Short Run. If there is only enough tobacco to make 1000 cigars cool go for it. But if you're doing it just to have people chasing it down.

F**k You.

None of these limited cigars have truly limited tobacco or anything really that special to them.
If you want to control who is selling them or create some mystique to them follow the Opus X model or Davidoff's model. Don't just be a pain in the @ss.

nikostewart

Madurofan, I figured it had something to do with the way he marketed his product. Honestly, I agree that it can be irritating to track down the newest limited release but that is one of the reasons that he has created the mystique around his product. Having DPG behind you is also a great way. Great business plan in my opinion but I see your side as well.

madurofan

Alex Svenson:

Yes there is a new policy in place with rocky Patel which sets prices and will no longer allow us to do deals on his cigars. This was not just a contract for internet and catalog but for all accounts nationwide including stores. It amounts to a 10% max discount off msrp. While I certainly respect the decision they made, I do believe a fair amount of customers will move brands as this changes the price customers were willing to Pay before they won't pay now. I hope people stay loyal for rockys sake, but I guess we will have to see what the market decide. In terms on retail being the bread and butter for a brand I disagree. Mail order represents over 60% of the industry and the truth is the stores rely on fayalite and fayalite rely on stores. Just my .02

Thanks for the info Alex. While I understand and in some degree agree with you. I know a lot of brands are under pressure to do this kind of thing. I know of a couple B&Ms that have put brands out of there stores because they can't compete with the deals online. I know of one that is decent sized that considered putting Davidoff out when they went online, only after repeated assurances that the online retailers couldn't go much cheaper did they keep it. And I know a store that has completely done away with RP for that reason.

Rocky built a lot of his rep by travelling from B&M to B&M if those guys are no longer carrying his brand ...

madurofan

nikostewart:

Madurofan, I figured it had something to do with the way he marketed his product. Honestly, I agree that it can be irritating to track down the newest limited release but that is one of the reasons that he has created the mystique around his product. Having DPG behind you is also a great way. Great business plan in my opinion but I see your side as well.

Yea I'm not recruiting to my side of the fence and I'll still smoke a tat when I see one but I REFUSE to chase them down anymore.

You get what I'm saying about following the Opus X or Davidoff white label model? You have to meet all kinds of requirements to carry those, online retailers included. That is enough mystique to me.

Krieg

For those of who know me, you know I'm (or was) a huge RP fan...but I have to say that I can def tell a difference in his blends. Sad to hear that his pricing policy has changed, because I personally don't think his cigars are worth $10+ (even the 15th) but thats just one man's opinion. I have noticed myself gravitating more towards Alec Bradley now...


one more thing...the Winter Blend 2009 cigar was a damn good cigar.

madurofan

Krieg:

one more thing...the Winter Blend 2009 cigar was a damn good cigar.

Agreed ... you know that was the same Pennsylvania maduro thats on the Patel Bros. I'm not positive on this but I was told he got it from AJ Fernandez.

Also have you tried any J. Fuego's?

Krieg

madurofan:

Krieg:

one more thing...the Winter Blend 2009 cigar was a damn good cigar.

Agreed ... you know that was the same Pennsylvania maduro thats on the Patel Bros. I'm not positive on this but I was told he got it from AJ Fernandez.

Also have you tried any J. Fuego's?

yep same wrapper...bought me a box of the RP Bros

xmacro

Alex Svenson:

Yes there is a new policy in place with rocky Patel which sets prices and will no longer allow us to do deals on his cigars. This was not just a contract for internet and catalog but for all accounts nationwide including stores. It amounts to a 10% max discount off msrp. While I certainly respect the decision they made, I do believe a fair amount of customers will move brands as this changes the price customers were willing to Pay before they won't pay now. I hope people stay loyal for rockys sake, but I guess we will have to see what the market decide. In terms on retail being the bread and butter for a brand I disagree. Mail order represents over 60% of the industry and the truth is the stores rely on fayalite and fayalite rely on stores. Just my .02

. . . what's fayalite?

Russ55

madurofan:

nikostewart:

madurofan:

If you really want to get me on a rant just ask me how I feel about Pete Johnson and Tatuaje .... speaking of which I need to remove this tatuaje signature ...

Without Hijacking this thread, How do you feel about PJ and Tatuaje? Just interested. Thanks

Deep Breath ...

I used to be a total Tatuaje whore. Pete had the Midas touch for me, everything he did was awesome. Probably still is. I mean one of my top 3 cigars is still the Tat Cojonu 2003. His cigars are still good to me but his damned business model pisses me off. Without going overboard I'll explain. I chased down a Tat Black then the Ghost Cigar (El Truinfador) then first Halloween cigar. Now it seems everytime I turn around I'm supposed to be chasing down some new limited edition, hard to find cigar.

Don't get me wrong I enjoy a limited edition cigar if there is a reason for it, i.e. Carillo Short Run. If there is only enough tobacco to make 1000 cigars cool go for it. But if you're doing it just to have people chasing it down.

F**k You.

None of these limited cigars have truly limited tobacco or anything really that special to them.
If you want to control who is selling them or create some mystique to them follow the Opus X model or Davidoff's model. Don't just be a pain in the @ss.

This is where I'm at with Tat, though I've never been totally in love with the brand at any point. I've got a few, and tried a few. They're good, but I'm not going to hop on the hype bandwagon every time there's a new release or holiday. I've got better things to do.