Someone raised a good question and it has been brought up several times. Is the Vintage '90 and '92 really from that year? I raised the same question on a RP thread on puff.com I wanted to know if this whole "VINTAGE" thing was some sort of a ploy to make consumers believe that a cigar is comprised at least or in part by vintage tobacco. So I posted a question on puff asking others if this supposed vintage line was a put on. One of the elder posters called me out and said this:
"This subject matter seems to come up at least a couple times a year in
the forums and the back story comes out that both the 90 and the 92
Vintages are made in Danli, Honduras with tobacco that was meant for
Astral cigars. In the mid nineties U.S. Cigar thought Astral would
become the next Montecristo and stockpiled bales of wrapper leaf in its
warehouses. A large quantity of this never made it to market, and sat
quietly ignored, gracefully aging and awaiting its fate. Patel came
across it and snapped it up after discovering its quality. There were
two types of leaf in the stockpile: Ecuadoran Sumatra from 1992 and
Honduran broadleaf from 1990. From what I have gathered in other
articles written is that there was so much of this that here we are in
2010 and there is still plenty available. I don't think Rocky is going
to "fudge" and put his empire at risk by substituting another wrapper or
lie about the ones he uses for the Vintages".
I think its becoming rather ridiculous that he feels its necessary to have to release 3 or 4 new blends or more every year. This isn't a concern because new releases are unappreciated but a little concerning when you know some of his other lines seem to be suffering. Lastly another comment I received regarding to my puff rocky vintage thread was:
" The wrapper on the Vintage lines is not from '90 or '92. The 1992 has a
10 year old wrapper on it and the 1990 has a 12 year old wrapper on it.
It clearly states this on his website. There is no shady dealings going
on".
I know rocky makes good cigars overall so, lets hope that this new pricing change will effect his profit margin in a big way and maybe then he will realize that his customers are noticing his blend changes, price increases etc.
Someone raised a good question and it has been brought up several times. Is the Vintage '90 and '92 really from that year?
originally yes it was. maybe not so much anymore. the "vintage" line could be a name only now. if you tried the vintage lines when they came out and a (few years after) and you compared it to the cigars now there will be a taste difference. i have a hard time believing that 100% of the tobacco is the same as it was when first blended.
RoyalCigars:
... both the 90 and the 92
Vintages are made in Danli, Honduras with tobacco that was meant for
Astral cigars. In the mid nineties U.S. Cigar thought Astral would
become the next Montecristo and stockpiled bales of wrapper leaf in its
warehouses. A large quantity of this never made it to market, and sat
quietly ignored, gracefully aging and awaiting its fate. Patel came
across it and snapped it up after discovering its quality. There were
two types of leaf in the stockpile: Ecuadoran Sumatra from 1992 and
Honduran broadleaf from 1990. From what I have gathered in other
articles written is that there was so much of this that here we are in
2010 and there is still plenty available. I don't think Rocky is going
to "fudge" and put his empire at risk by substituting another wrapper or
lie about the ones he uses for the Vintages".
the wrapper leaf may be the same, but there is no mention of the filler. there have been so many of these cigars rolled that the quantity of filler leaf used has consumed huge numbers of bundles of tobacco.
i find it almost unreasonable that they have head the exact same blend of the exact same tobacco from the same year, same fields, same fermentation, etc to make the cigar exactly the same for the last 11 years.
and if it IS vintage tobacco from 1990 that means that this tobacco is now 21 years old. only so much life is in a tobacco leaf.
RoyalCigars:
Lastly another comment I received regarding to my puff rocky vintage thread was:
" The wrapper on the Vintage lines is not from '90 or '92. The 1992 has a
10 year old wrapper on it and the 1990 has a 12 year old wrapper on it.
It clearly states this on his website. There is no shady dealings going
on".
maybe he just stuck with that line. when they were released in 2002 those numbers were correct.
maybe it is as i have stated above. the word "vintage" is just the name of the cigar as in "vintage 1990" or "Camacho 1962" or "Nestor Miranda 1989" the years harken back to a year that was important for that company. i have no problem with that as a concept or marketing tool.
Kuzi, You could very well be correct. Even if Rocky did change the filler, binder, wrapper or all of the above, he would never own up to it. And that's what makes this whole situation a big pain in the rear. Blend changes I think are very much apart of the cigar industry and it's probably very common for a manufacturer and/or blender to "tweak' the blend(s). Personally, I don't appreciate it at all. For three reasons. Number one, its not necessary. If the manufacturer likes a blend, then they should use that blend and once released should stick to it for as long as possible. The only exception to this rule would be if a particular type of tobacco within the blend somehow became unavailable. In which case I would sincerely hope that a tweaking would only be necessary to achieve the greatest likeness in flavor to the original as possible utilizing what tobacco available. Number two, "tweaking" is and could be due to the blender or manufacturer to trying to attain the blend that THEY desire. Well....what about the customer? What about what they want? The customer bought your product because they like it, and as such will likely buy more. However if the blend is changed than this loyalty may be short lived. And thirdly, when a cigar blend is changed the manufacturer usually makes no effort to notify its customers, dealers etc. This is particularly frustrating because if a manufacturer did in fact plan to change the blend of a particular cigar and they were decent enough to inform their customers, at least some of those loyal customers would pick up a box or two extra in preparation of the change. If it was up to me, every time a regular production cigar blend was changed, the manufacturer would have to inform its customers. It's only fair. Otherwise how do you really know what your getting? Of course this is just all my opinion. Either way, if you can....as soon as a new release comes out and upon sampling it you find you love it. Pick up a few boxes before they change something!
i could be wrong. to be honest, i dont know. im just theorizing.
RoyalCigars:
Even if Rocky did change the filler, binder, wrapper or all of the above, he would never own up to it. And that's what makes this whole situation a big pain in the rear. Blend changes I think are very much apart of the cigar industry and it's probably very common for a manufacturer and/or blender to "tweak' the blend(s). Personally, I don't appreciate it at all. For three reasons. Number one, its not necessary. If the manufacturer likes a blend, then they should use that blend and once released should stick to it for as long as possible. The only exception to this rule would be if a particular type of tobacco within the blend somehow became unavailable. In which case I would sincerely hope that a tweaking would only be necessary to achieve the greatest likeness in flavor to the original as possible utilizing what tobacco available. Number two, "tweaking" is and could be due to the blender or manufacturer to trying to attain the blend that THEY desire. Well....what about the customer? What about what they want? The customer bought your product because they like it, and as such will likely buy more. However if the blend is changed than this loyalty may be short lived. And thirdly, when a cigar blend is changed the manufacturer usually makes no effort to notify its customers, dealers etc. This is particularly frustrating because if a manufacturer did in fact plan to change the blend of a particular cigar and they were decent enough to inform their customers, at least some of those loyal customers would pick up a box or two extra in preparation of the change. If it was up to me, every time a regular production cigar blend was changed, the manufacturer would have to inform its customers. It's only fair. Otherwise how do you really know what your getting? Of course this is just all my opinion. Either way, if you can....as soon as a new release comes out and upon sampling it you find you love it. Pick up a few boxes before they change something!
-Regards and Long Ashes Gents!
all of that quote leads me to my point of view on this. if you are using a rare or special tobacco to make a line of cigars, make it a short run cigar and end it when the tobacco runs out. price accordingly.
I counted the 92, decade and nording among my favorites...love the edge too. But I haven't had one of these in last year or so as I've been trying different things. I did buy a Patel bros. The other day and will let it rest for a while....seems like folks are liking this stick.
I 1st have to say I'm the same opinion, I wasn't RP bashing, I stated clearly I'm in love with the Edge Maduros I have, and I've smoked several RP's I loved. The Connie was a damn fine Connie as little as I smoked connecticute wrapped cigars. Patel bros I smoked 2 and Loved them. But I'm upset about the vintage 90's and their decline, along with a few decades I smoked that were way below subpar compared to the first few amazing decades I had. I don't want to send the wrong idea, Rocky had some FINE smokes, I was just stating my opinion on how they seem to have gone downhill on a few blends. And I just can't see him choosing now to do price structuring when things are below subpar for some RP brands. Thats all, I still will stock some RP's, so I wasn't bashing.
well here is my mystery deal, all the talk on here is always that CI and CCOM are seperate entities..... then why with my last order did I recieve both a CI and CCOM Catalog and both different Packs of matches in the same Box with an order from CCOM.... I have never ordered from CI......
well here is my mystery deal, all the talk on here is always that CI and CCOM are seperate entities..... then why with my last order did I recieve both a CI and CCOM Catalog and both different Packs of matches in the same Box with an order from CCOM.... I have never ordered from CI......
niether have i...but I did get on their mailing list somehow. Probably signed up for a contest at some point is my guess.
Comments
I wanted to know if this whole "VINTAGE" thing was some sort of a ploy to make consumers believe that a cigar is comprised at least or in part by vintage tobacco. So I posted a question on puff asking others if this supposed vintage line was a put on. One of the elder posters called me out and said this:
"This subject matter seems to come up at least a couple times a year in the forums and the back story comes out that both the 90 and the 92 Vintages are made in Danli, Honduras with tobacco that was meant for Astral cigars. In the mid nineties U.S. Cigar thought Astral would become the next Montecristo and stockpiled bales of wrapper leaf in its warehouses. A large quantity of this never made it to market, and sat quietly ignored, gracefully aging and awaiting its fate. Patel came across it and snapped it up after discovering its quality. There were two types of leaf in the stockpile: Ecuadoran Sumatra from 1992 and Honduran broadleaf from 1990. From what I have gathered in other articles written is that there was so much of this that here we are in 2010 and there is still plenty available. I don't think Rocky is going to "fudge" and put his empire at risk by substituting another wrapper or lie about the ones he uses for the Vintages".
I think its becoming rather ridiculous that he feels its necessary to have to release 3 or 4 new blends or more every year. This isn't a concern because new releases are unappreciated but a little concerning when you know some of his other lines seem to be suffering. Lastly another comment I received regarding to my puff rocky vintage thread was:
" The wrapper on the Vintage lines is not from '90 or '92. The 1992 has a 10 year old wrapper on it and the 1990 has a 12 year old wrapper on it. It clearly states this on his website. There is no shady dealings going on".
I know rocky makes good cigars overall so, lets hope that this new pricing change will effect his profit margin in a big way and maybe then he will realize that his customers are noticing his blend changes, price increases etc.
-Regards and Long Ashes!
maybe not so much anymore. the "vintage" line could be a name only now.
if you tried the vintage lines when they came out and a (few years after) and you compared it to the cigars now there will be a taste difference.
i have a hard time believing that 100% of the tobacco is the same as it was when first blended.
the wrapper leaf may be the same, but there is no mention of the filler. there have been so many of these cigars rolled that the quantity of filler leaf used has consumed huge numbers of bundles of tobacco.
i find it almost unreasonable that they have head the exact same blend of the exact same tobacco from the same year, same fields, same fermentation, etc to make the cigar exactly the same for the last 11 years.
and if it IS vintage tobacco from 1990 that means that this tobacco is now 21 years old. only so much life is in a tobacco leaf.
maybe he just stuck with that line. when they were released in 2002 those numbers were correct.
maybe it is as i have stated above. the word "vintage" is just the name of the cigar as in "vintage 1990" or "Camacho 1962" or "Nestor Miranda 1989" the years harken back to a year that was important for that company.
i have no problem with that as a concept or marketing tool.
You could very well be correct. Even if Rocky did change the filler, binder, wrapper or all of the above, he would never own up to it. And that's what makes this whole situation a big pain in the rear. Blend changes I think are very much apart of the cigar industry and it's probably very common for a manufacturer and/or blender to "tweak' the blend(s). Personally, I don't appreciate it at all. For three reasons. Number one, its not necessary. If the manufacturer likes a blend, then they should use that blend and once released should stick to it for as long as possible. The only exception to this rule would be if a particular type of tobacco within the blend somehow became unavailable. In which case I would sincerely hope that a tweaking would only be necessary to achieve the greatest likeness in flavor to the original as possible utilizing what tobacco available. Number two, "tweaking" is and could be due to the blender or manufacturer to trying to attain the blend that THEY desire. Well....what about the customer? What about what they want? The customer bought your product because they like it, and as such will likely buy more. However if the blend is changed than this loyalty may be short lived. And thirdly, when a cigar blend is changed the manufacturer usually makes no effort to notify its customers, dealers etc. This is particularly frustrating because if a manufacturer did in fact plan to change the blend of a particular cigar and they were decent enough to inform their customers, at least some of those loyal customers would pick up a box or two extra in preparation of the change. If it was up to me, every time a regular production cigar blend was changed, the manufacturer would have to inform its customers. It's only fair. Otherwise how do you really know what your getting?
Of course this is just all my opinion. Either way, if you can....as soon as a new release comes out and upon sampling it you find you love it. Pick up a few boxes before they change something!
-Regards and Long Ashes Gents!
to be honest, i dont know. im just theorizing.
all of that quote leads me to my point of view on this.
if you are using a rare or special tobacco to make a line of cigars, make it a short run cigar and end it when the tobacco runs out. price accordingly.