Sniper's Gripe Thread

OK gentlemen, enough is enough and I'm tired of it.

I just read on another thread that two more BOTL got screwed over on trades. Tried their best to make it right thru PM's and couldn't get it done. Both have refused to name the offending parties.

A lot of people don't want to make waves. Or Dont like conflict. Don't want to be seen as the guy who "flamed" somebody in the open forum.

I myself have no such qualms or concerns.

Some folks simply dont like conflict or drama, and I can understand that also. To a point. But at some point, when you've done everything you can do to work a situation out and its not happening, PEOPLE NEED TO KNOW ABOUT IT. And they need to know more than "I got screwed." They need to know who and how - not necessarily to flame the person, but to protect your fellow BOTL so they don't end up the same way you did. Ive been there - got hosed on a trade, said nothing, and then found out that the offending party ran the same scam on other BOTL here. A LOT of others.

Part of that was my fault, because I said nothing to warn and protect others. Its a sick feeling fellas, it really is. And I decided then and there that I wasn't going to let it happen again.

Said all that to say this - Im going to put myself in the kill box. If you have a bad deal with somebody, I want to know about it. See something hinky happening in a pass? Screwed on a trade? See someone acting like a jacka$$ in a thread? TELL ME. Shoot me a pm and let me know the details of whats going on. And here's what I'm going to do with it...

First, Im going to contact the person(s) involved and try to mediate or moderate the situation. Ive found in life there are three sides to most stories - yours, mine, and the truth somewhere between the two of them. If I get a gripe about someone, I want to hear what that someone has to say about it.

After that, Im going to contact several senior BOTL who are to the best of my knowledge neutral to the situation in question. I will get their thoughts on the situation, act accordingly, and pm the parties involved to let them know what that action is.

This is not meant to be a unilateral action gentlemen. I am not going to be judge, jury & executioner all by my little lonesome. However, I AM going to protect the members of this forum, and maintain the integrity of the forums, to the utmost.

I've gotten a ton of pm's over the last several months to the effects of "the forums just aren't like they used to be", and "I cant believe the nerve of such-and-such", and "somebody should say something", and "you're a highly respected member of the forums (debatable I know), people will listen to you". Ive also seen lots of inferences to bad trades, passes, etc but nobody seems to really address the issue directly or do anything about any of this.

So I,m gonna try.

In closing, got a b*tch, gripe or complaint? PM me and let me try to help or take care of it for you. Comments on anything I post here are encouraged, but please Please PLEASE PM me with any initial issue and let me try this system out to see how it works, instead of using this thread to just flame someone or post veiled references to the issue. Let's see how it goes.

My fellow BOTL, the complaint line is OPEN. PM me.

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Comments

Krieg

The Sniper:
Gentlemen, Im working on a second issue and would like three senior-tenured BOTL to review it with me independently. Please PM me if interested, your identities will remain confidential.

Pm sent bud

CvilleE

Is this forum getting this bad that we have to keep doing this....I'm getting worried.

xmacro

CvilleE:
Is this forum getting this bad that we have to keep doing this....I'm getting worried.

Kinda with you on this. The forum has always had a kind of free flow to it, just a bunch of BOTL's hanging out. Do we really need tribunals deciding these things? Does this kind of thing even work?

Wouldn't it just be easier for anyone with a bad trade to try to work it out through PM's, and if that doesn't work, just post a thread about it on the forums.

y2pascoe

xmacro:
CvilleE:
Is this forum getting this bad that we have to keep doing this....I'm getting worried.
Kinda with you on this. The forum has always had a kind of free flow to it, just a bunch of BOTL's hanging out. Do we really need tribunals deciding these things? Does this kind of thing even work?

Wouldn't it just be easier for anyone with a bad trade to try to work it out through PM's, and if that doesn't work, just post a thread about it on the forums.

+1 I was reading this thread earlier today and felt like there was some kind of secret tribunal vibe going on. Like, "senior BOTL's". What is that? Was there some kind of delegation? What's the criteria of who's a senior BOTL? If someone's F'd over another guy on the forum and it wasn't settled on a personal level, just out 'em. Sniper, I appreciate where your hearts at on this issue, but lets figure out another system. Making vague public references to disputes, and then making public references to these matters being discussed in private isn't doing any favors to dedicated forum members. Guys on here want to know what's going on.

kaspera79

So, if people have a gripe that they would like Sniper to help out with, Why not JUST PM him Instead of putting in the the open forum that you are sending him a mesage about a problem. Sounds simple to me. Now everybody else doesn't worry about if they are the subject. Same goes if you are a mediator. Keep all this banter in PMs

y2pascoe

kaspera79:
So, if people have a gripe that they would like Sniper to help out with, Why not JUST PM him Instead of putting in the the open forum that you are sending him a mesage about a problem. Sounds simple to me. Now everybody else doesn't worry about if they are the subject. Same goes if you are a mediator. Keep all this banter in PMs

OK, but why am I sending my dispute to Sniper? I initiate 1 (trade/bomb/pass) with BOTL X...I get screwed by BOTL X....What good does it do, sending a complaint to Sniper, when I can just post on the forum, "BOTL X screwed me over and pissed in my corn flakes, don't do business with him." There's no need for secretivy in my opinion.

kaspera79

y2pascoe:
kaspera79:
So, if people have a gripe that they would like Sniper to help out with, Why not JUST PM him Instead of putting in the the open forum that you are sending him a mesage about a problem. Sounds simple to me. Now everybody else doesn't worry about if they are the subject. Same goes if you are a mediator. Keep all this banter in PMs
OK, but why am I sending my dispute to Sniper? I initiate 1 (trade/bomb/pass) with BOTL X...I get screwed by BOTL X....What good does it do, sending a complaint to Sniper, when I can just post on the forum, "BOTL X screwed me over and pissed in my corn flakes, don't do business with him." There's no need for secretivy in my opinion.

Well, if you PM'd the offending member with no response, and feel a strong urge to take that action no one can stop you. Did this happen to you? or is this just hypothetical at this point.

kaspera79

.. In addition. Read page one post one. It is no means a law do what you want. Just don't do nothing is what this is all about as far as I can tell.

The Sniper

xmacro:
CvilleE:
Is this forum getting this bad that we have to keep doing this....I'm getting worried.
Kinda with you on this. The forum has always had a kind of free flow to it, just a bunch of BOTL's hanging out. Do we really need tribunals deciding these things? Does this kind of thing even work?

Wouldn't it just be easier for anyone with a bad trade to try to work it out through PM's, and if that doesn't work, just post a thread about it on the forums.

My honest answer gentlemen - I dont know.

I started this thread from a place of anger. Over the last several months, Ive seen some members of the forum say some just straight-up stupid sh!t - like xmacro said, rather than take it up in pm's, they just go on blast on the open forums, post without thinking, and then get butthurt and combative when they're called on it. Really pissed me off, and rather than hijeck people's threads bickering back and forth, I thought Id start a thread to call BS when I saw it in no uncertain terms. Act like an a-hole, Im gonna tell you you're an a-hole point blank.

I dont know how much time you've been spending on the boards lately, but this crap is happening WAY too often and needs to stop. Its to the point that a lot of folks who have been here for a while dont come here anymore because the vibe of the place has changed, and even more are considering it. Some of the names Ive heard such sentiments from would truly shock you - we are talking absolute PILLARS of this community.

I still feel that way and still plan to do exactly what I said. However, taking my own advice Ive advanced to others (think before you type, and think again before you hit the post button) I thought about it, and decided to also try to bring some positive from a negative and offered to mediate disputes when they arise. I sincerely hope all of the issues I get CAN be handled thru pm's totally off the open forum, but if they cant be, or if an honest threat to the BOTL in this community is discovered a la the JoeyJoe situation, so be it. I would rather be called a sheriff or a tribunal or whatever than EVER see a bunch of people get taken advantage of like that again.

Speaking of the tribunal comment, here's how Ive been handling issues that come in to me - I gather as much information as possible on the situation, and provide it to 3 BOTL who volunteer anonymously who are impartial to the situation and to the people involved. Im going out of my way not to let it be the same BOTL, and have actually turned people who have already helped away when they volunteer right away to help again - the last thing we need here is a core "good ol boy" club sitting in judgement of their peers. I ask for their take on the issue, and thats what decisions on the issues will be based on. I figured that was a more impartial way to figure out what happened and what to do instead of me just deciding stuff myself in a judge / jury / executioner style. What makes me qualified to sit in judgement? Again, nothing - other than possibly a need for it and a willingness to help resolve issues and correct wrongheaded behavior that makes the forums into someplace where the people who have built it into such a great place no longer want to be because of what its becoming.

Is there a need for it? Time will tell. I will share that in the short time this thread has been in existence, I have had three separate issues come my way. And Ive found a funny thing while gathering information - its been an eye opener how nearly everyone I talk to has a story about how they had trouble during a pass, got stiffed on a trade, kicked in on a collection and never saw anything happen with it, what have you. The common threads with all of them so far? First, in most cases the offended party SAID NOTHING because they didnt want to make waves. Secondly, when engaged for information on an issue Im working on, EVERY SINGLE ONE of the people Ive talked to has requested anonymity from the people Im mediating the issue for, because they dont want any part of any drama or dont want to be known as "that guy".

Will it work? Again, time will tell. I can work out a recommendation for people on how to resolve an issue based on the input of the independent anonymous reviewers who are helping me, but it is in the end just that - a recommendation. The parties can (and I suspect in some cases will) tell me to take my suggestion and stick it up my a$$. All I can do is post the facts as Ive gathered them on the open forum (IF AND ONLY IF the "wronged" party feels its warranted), but thats not going to get their sticks back or their money back or whatever. Resolution ultimately will come from the person wanting to be a respected member of the forums and wanting to live up to the high standard of conduct that the BOTL here expect.

Thanks for questioning this guys, honestly & sincerely. This kind of discussion is going to be the thing that keeps this idea valid in the minds of those who read the posts here, and will ultimately be the ones to end it... and I sincerely hope that end comes because there is no longer any need for it, because that will mean that the issues that drove me to start it are no longer happening. Whatever is best for the good of these forums, thats what Im down for.

y2pascoe

kaspera79:
y2pascoe:
kaspera79:
So, if people have a gripe that they would like Sniper to help out with, Why not JUST PM him Instead of putting in the the open forum that you are sending him a mesage about a problem. Sounds simple to me. Now everybody else doesn't worry about if they are the subject. Same goes if you are a mediator. Keep all this banter in PMs
OK, but why am I sending my dispute to Sniper? I initiate 1 (trade/bomb/pass) with BOTL X...I get screwed by BOTL X....What good does it do, sending a complaint to Sniper, when I can just post on the forum, "BOTL X screwed me over and pissed in my corn flakes, don't do business with him." There's no need for secretivy in my opinion.
Well, if you PM'd the offending member with no response, and feel a strong urge to take that action no one can stop you. Did this happen to you? or is this just hypothetical at this point.

I'm speaking stricktly hypothetically. But from what I've read, there seems to be concerns. What I would call, "Senior BOTLs" in the loop, and a bunch of us other guys, who are loyal to the forum, being rather in the dark.

kaspera79

In my opinion you would be a senior member of the forum with a valued opinion of what happens here. And someone who Sniper would call upon for advise on matters as well. I expect that someday he will seek my opinion. And when that happens I will offer what I can. Look at the list of who is here everyday contributing in one way or another. These are the ones watching out for their peers.

The Sniper

y2pascoe:
+1 I was reading this thread earlier today and felt like there was some kind of secret tribunal vibe going on. Like, "senior BOTL's". What is that? Was there some kind of delegation? What's the criteria of who's a senior BOTL? If someone's F'd over another guy on the forum and it wasn't settled on a personal level, just out 'em. Sniper, I appreciate where your hearts at on this issue, but lets figure out another system. Making vague public references to disputes, and then making public references to these matters being discussed in private isn't doing any favors to dedicated forum members. Guys on here want to know what's going on.

I agree with much of what you said in this Pascoe, and thank you for voicing your concerns.

First, by "senior BOTL's" I mean people who have been active members who have been here for a long period of time and who have in part been responsible for making the forums the great place we've all known them to be. I dont think its right that I sit in judgement by myself, Im not God or even The Beard. I feel like the only right thing to do is solicit the opinions of the best people I can find - impartially, anonymously and completely uninvolved with the issue at hand. Ive already been surprised by one BOTL who had experience with one of the people involved in an issue I was working on, and their involvement ended then and there. Who am I supposed to ask for this kind of help - Snuffy Smith with 83 posts to his name, or someone like Kuzi (DISCLAIMER - KUZI HAS HAD ZERO INVOLVEMENT WITH THIS THREAD OR ANY ISSUES AT ALL)?

Now, if you have a bad dealing with someone or take umbrage with something they say or do, and you happen to have the "intestinal fortitude" to flame em on the open forum, I say go for it. Its YOUR issue, YOU deal with it. No assburn from me. However, Im finding out slowly that for whatever reason, a lot of BOTL here dont want to deal with it and would rather sit quietly and let it go. I understand that too, and if thats how you want to handle your issues thats fine too because again, its YOUR issue. If however, you want someone to help you try and resolve your issue, Im willing.

Finally, I agree with your thoughts about veiled public references to issues , and will do my best to avoid that in the future. I will post results and lessons learned from the mediations I deal with and thats all. However on the other hand, if you're involved you're going to know it thru pm's. If you're not, its none of your damned business anyway, go about your day.

j0z3r

y2pascoe:
kaspera79:
y2pascoe:
kaspera79:
So, if people have a gripe that they would like Sniper to help out with, Why not JUST PM him Instead of putting in the the open forum that you are sending him a mesage about a problem. Sounds simple to me. Now everybody else doesn't worry about if they are the subject. Same goes if you are a mediator. Keep all this banter in PMs
OK, but why am I sending my dispute to Sniper? I initiate 1 (trade/bomb/pass) with BOTL X...I get screwed by BOTL X....What good does it do, sending a complaint to Sniper, when I can just post on the forum, "BOTL X screwed me over and pissed in my corn flakes, don't do business with him." There's no need for secretivy in my opinion.
Well, if you PM'd the offending member with no response, and feel a strong urge to take that action no one can stop you. Did this happen to you? or is this just hypothetical at this point.
I'm speaking stricktly hypothetically. But from what I've read, there seems to be concerns. What I would call, "Senior BOTLs" in the loop, and a bunch of us other guys, who are loyal to the forum, being rather in the dark.

My question based on this post is: do you take issue with the fact that you feel a delineation between "senior members" and "normal forum goers", or is it an issue of this idea existing period? If it's the first, I can only offer my assurances that your join date means nothing when the good of the forum community enters into the discussion, and I would suspect Sniper feels much the same. So that delineation I mentioned doesn't really exist, we all have a say or nobody does.

The Sniper

y2pascoe:
kaspera79:
y2pascoe:
kaspera79:
So, if people have a gripe that they would like Sniper to help out with, Why not JUST PM him Instead of putting in the the open forum that you are sending him a mesage about a problem. Sounds simple to me. Now everybody else doesn't worry about if they are the subject. Same goes if you are a mediator. Keep all this banter in PMs
OK, but why am I sending my dispute to Sniper? I initiate 1 (trade/bomb/pass) with BOTL X...I get screwed by BOTL X....What good does it do, sending a complaint to Sniper, when I can just post on the forum, "BOTL X screwed me over and pissed in my corn flakes, don't do business with him." There's no need for secretivy in my opinion.
Well, if you PM'd the offending member with no response, and feel a strong urge to take that action no one can stop you. Did this happen to you? or is this just hypothetical at this point.
I'm speaking stricktly hypothetically. But from what I've read, there seems to be concerns. What I would call, "Senior BOTLs" in the loop, and a bunch of us other guys, who are loyal to the forum, being rather in the dark.

OK, Im trying to be a diplomat here but Ive gotta be honest - this last comment peeved me off a bit, because its the kind of thing thats allowing the problems we're seeing behavior-wise in the forums to propogate. I put out a call for volunteers to help me with every issue thats been brought to me so far. You chose not to get involved then, but you're gonna sit here now and complain that you're in the dark? If you're not gonna help find solutions, at least have the common decency not to stir up more problems.

y2pascoe

The Sniper:
y2pascoe:
kaspera79:
y2pascoe:
kaspera79:
So, if people have a gripe that they would like Sniper to help out with, Why not JUST PM him Instead of putting in the the open forum that you are sending him a mesage about a problem. Sounds simple to me. Now everybody else doesn't worry about if they are the subject. Same goes if you are a mediator. Keep all this banter in PMs
OK, but why am I sending my dispute to Sniper? I initiate 1 (trade/bomb/pass) with BOTL X...I get screwed by BOTL X....What good does it do, sending a complaint to Sniper, when I can just post on the forum, "BOTL X screwed me over and pissed in my corn flakes, don't do business with him." There's no need for secretivy in my opinion.
Well, if you PM'd the offending member with no response, and feel a strong urge to take that action no one can stop you. Did this happen to you? or is this just hypothetical at this point.
I'm speaking stricktly hypothetically. But from what I've read, there seems to be concerns. What I would call, "Senior BOTLs" in the loop, and a bunch of us other guys, who are loyal to the forum, being rather in the dark.
OK, Im trying to be a diplomat here but Ive gotta be honest - this last comment peeved me off a bit, because its the kind of thing thats allowing the problems we're seeing behavior-wise in the forums to propogate. I put out a call for volunteers to help me with every issue thats been brought to me so far. You chose not to get involved then, but you're gonna sit here now and complain that you're in the dark? If you're not gonna help find solutions, at least have the common decency not to stir up more problems.

Sniper, I'm not trying to undermine what your trying to do here. I support it. I'm just voicing my concerns on what I've read. I'm still trying to look at it from every possible angle. I'm certainly not trying to "stir up" anything either. As far as choosing not to get involved...look...I don't monitor every thread on this board all the time, I wouldn't get much work done if that was the case. I miss things from time to time so I guess I'm not always up on c.com forum current events. If you don't like my comments...I don't know what to tell you. Maybe I am being the pissy pants here, but my responses are honest. I'll reiterate, I whole heartedly support what your going for here and I appreciate you stepping up for everyone on here. I'm sorry if you feel like I'm coming down on you. Wasn't my intent.

Ken Light

Everyone always resents the sheriff's presence 'til they need to call his name and he's there to hear it. This isn't dark smokey rooms with secretive tribunals in scary robes, its forum guys volunteering to give their 2 cents anonymously and move on. If you want to volunteer, then do so. If you're on the noobish side, get active and volunteer later.

y2p, I can't speak for Sniper, but in my eyes you've more than earned the right to volunteer for this, if that's what you want to do.

I do have one question for you, though, Sniper: Do you give any consideration to who gives you feedback based on who's involved? There are certain...not groups, exactly, but people on here either through geography which is conducive to herfs or common interests...who might be biased if one of the people involved were in that 'group.'

The Sniper

y2pascoe:
Sniper, I'm not trying to undermine what your trying to do here. I support it. I'm just voicing my concerns on what I've read. I'm still trying to look at it from every possible angle. I'm certainly not trying to "stir up" anything either. As far as choosing not to get involved...look...I don't monitor every thread on this board all the time, I wouldn't get much work done if that was the case. I miss things from time to time so I guess I'm not always up on c.com forum current events. If you don't like my comments...I don't know what to tell you. Maybe I am being the pissy pants here, but my responses are honest. I'll reiterate, I whole heartedly support what your going for here and I appreciate you stepping up for everyone on here. I'm sorry if you feel like I'm coming down on you. Wasn't my intent.

Understood and respected sir. We're good. Questioning the process and results is one of the things that is going to help BOTL be sure this thing IS on the up-&-up. The comments just hit me wrong, and I apologize for getting torqued up. Pissy pants - thats funny! LOL Inaccurate in my view, but funny.

Finally, you have every right to make any comment you wish, whether I or anyone else likes it or not. That goes for everyone on the boards as far as Im concerned.

The Sniper

Ken Light:
Everyone always resents the sheriff's presence 'til they need to call his name and he's there to hear it. This isn't dark smokey rooms with secretive tribunals in scary robes, its forum guys volunteering to give their 2 cents anonymously and move on. If you want to volunteer, then do so. If you're on the noobish side, get active and volunteer later.

y2p, I can't speak for Sniper, but in my eyes you've more than earned the right to volunteer for this, if that's what you want to do.

I do have one question for you, though, Sniper: Do you give any consideration to who gives you feedback based on who's involved? There are certain...not groups, exactly, but people on here either through geography which is conducive to herfs or common interests...who might be biased if one of the people involved were in that 'group.'

First part - Ive known y2pascoe to be an objective BOTL who is also a straight shooter, and I need all of those types of people I can get to make this thing work. I would love and welcome his help in mediations. Not only does he have the right qualities for what Im trying to do, lets face it - who's gonna argue with a guy who has ARCHIE FREAKIN BUNKER as his avatar??? LOL

Second part - Great consideration goes into whose feedback I look to when something comes to my attention. I completely understand what you mean in your question, and that is one of the factors I think about among a host of others. As a VERY hypothetical example - I am aware that j0z3r and tbandy are close friends and herf together regularly. Should an issue arise with either of them, I cant and wont go to the other one for their feedback on the issue. Absolutely not because I distrust either of them or doubt their objectivity - I know them both to be stand up BOTL of the highest integrity. Its simply an issueof them being too close to the issue, and opening up the process to accusations of favoritism or a "good ol boy" mentality. One of the things I worry GRAVELY about is creating cliques or causing strife between individuals because of what we're doing here, which is why I keep the advisor's identities anonymous. I know that Im never going to do that, because its not what Im trying to do here. And I assure you, the instant anyone percieves that it may be happening this experiment will end immediately.

boydmcgowan

Ignoring all the details, becuase I know those will get worked out becuase of all the quality BOTLs and SOTLs we have here, I like the idea of the thread Glen, so keep on keeping on Brother.

Thats really all I have to add here. Just offering some words of support to Glen. However the final format of this thing goes, and it may take some time to nail it down, I think its a good thing. Thanks for taking ownership of it, brother.

xmacro

The Sniper:
xmacro:
CvilleE:
Is this forum getting this bad that we have to keep doing this....I'm getting worried.
Kinda with you on this. The forum has always had a kind of free flow to it, just a bunch of BOTL's hanging out. Do we really need tribunals deciding these things? Does this kind of thing even work?

Wouldn't it just be easier for anyone with a bad trade to try to work it out through PM's, and if that doesn't work, just post a thread about it on the forums.

My honest answer gentlemen - I dont know.

I started this thread from a place of anger. Over the last several months, Ive seen some members of the forum say some just straight-up stupid sh!t - like xmacro said, rather than take it up in pm's, they just go on blast on the open forums, post without thinking, and then get butthurt and combative when they're called on it. Really pissed me off, and rather than hijeck people's threads bickering back and forth, I thought Id start a thread to call BS when I saw it in no uncertain terms. Act like an a-hole, Im gonna tell you you're an a-hole point blank.

I dont know how much time you've been spending on the boards lately, but this crap is happening WAY too often and needs to stop. Its to the point that a lot of folks who have been here for a while dont come here anymore because the vibe of the place has changed, and even more are considering it. Some of the names Ive heard such sentiments from would truly shock you - we are talking absolute PILLARS of this community.

I still feel that way and still plan to do exactly what I said. However, taking my own advice Ive advanced to others (think before you type, and think again before you hit the post button) I thought about it, and decided to also try to bring some positive from a negative and offered to mediate disputes when they arise. I sincerely hope all of the issues I get CAN be handled thru pm's totally off the open forum, but if they cant be, or if an honest threat to the BOTL in this community is discovered a la the JoeyJoe situation, so be it. I would rather be called a sheriff or a tribunal or whatever than EVER see a bunch of people get taken advantage of like that again.

Speaking of the tribunal comment, here's how Ive been handling issues that come in to me - I gather as much information as possible on the situation, and provide it to 3 BOTL who volunteer anonymously who are impartial to the situation and to the people involved. Im going out of my way not to let it be the same BOTL, and have actually turned people who have already helped away when they volunteer right away to help again - the last thing we need here is a core "good ol boy" club sitting in judgement of their peers. I ask for their take on the issue, and thats what decisions on the issues will be based on. I figured that was a more impartial way to figure out what happened and what to do instead of me just deciding stuff myself in a judge / jury / executioner style. What makes me qualified to sit in judgement? Again, nothing - other than possibly a need for it and a willingness to help resolve issues and correct wrongheaded behavior that makes the forums into someplace where the people who have built it into such a great place no longer want to be because of what its becoming.

Is there a need for it? Time will tell. I will share that in the short time this thread has been in existence, I have had three separate issues come my way. And Ive found a funny thing while gathering information - its been an eye opener how nearly everyone I talk to has a story about how they had trouble during a pass, got stiffed on a trade, kicked in on a collection and never saw anything happen with it, what have you. The common threads with all of them so far? First, in most cases the offended party SAID NOTHING because they didnt want to make waves. Secondly, when engaged for information on an issue Im working on, EVERY SINGLE ONE of the people Ive talked to has requested anonymity from the people Im mediating the issue for, because they dont want any part of any drama or dont want to be known as "that guy".

Will it work? Again, time will tell. I can work out a recommendation for people on how to resolve an issue based on the input of the independent anonymous reviewers who are helping me, but it is in the end just that - a recommendation. The parties can (and I suspect in some cases will) tell me to take my suggestion and stick it up my a$$. All I can do is post the facts as Ive gathered them on the open forum (IF AND ONLY IF the "wronged" party feels its warranted), but thats not going to get their sticks back or their money back or whatever. Resolution ultimately will come from the person wanting to be a respected member of the forums and wanting to live up to the high standard of conduct that the BOTL here expect.

Thanks for questioning this guys, honestly & sincerely. This kind of discussion is going to be the thing that keeps this idea valid in the minds of those who read the posts here, and will ultimately be the ones to end it... and I sincerely hope that end comes because there is no longer any need for it, because that will mean that the issues that drove me to start it are no longer happening. Whatever is best for the good of these forums, thats what Im down for.

I get what you're saying, and you've got me convinced that this is e a good thing; last thing I wanna see is good BOTL's leaving the forums because they don't wanna make waves over bad trades. So for now, I guess it's a good thing that these things are dealt with by trust BOTL's instead of swept under the rug.

But just keep in mind that most of the things that plague our society today started off as good ideas that outlived their usefulness; I really hope the day come soon when this is no longer needed

Ken Light:
Everyone always resents the sheriff's presence 'til they need to call his name and he's there to hear it. This isn't dark smokey rooms with secretive tribunals in scary robes, its forum guys volunteering to give their 2 cents anonymously and move on. If you want to volunteer, then do so. If you're on the noobish side, get active and volunteer later.'

Awww

If they were gonna have smokey back rooms with GOF's, MOW Armada's, and cool robes, I'd be the first to sign up

The Kid

Ok,, after reading everything here,, I gues its best to just let the forum decide what the best course of action is for all parties....
It all started about a month ago when I received a bomb from Rhamalam,,aka (Rhamlin) the brother sent me some awesome sticks,, He also included,, which I did not post, a picture of himself wearin nuthin but a man thong and the rest of his body was covered in what appeared to be Peanut butter (creamy) and Marshmallow Creme... Well I did what any one of us would do.. I stashed the picture away and would look at it when I was alone,,,,, Well My GF knew something had changed in our relationship,, and became more and more suspicious..One day it all came to a head when she saw me stocking up on Creamy peanut butter and Marshmallow creme,, She confronted me,, I broke down, confessed and showed her the picture...

She was shocked but we made love that night like never before.. The next morning I awoke and she was gone,, all that was left was a note explaining how the picture ruined her for other men and she was leaving me, now in search of, the man of her dreams..

Well as you all can imagine I am devastated, not because my GF left but because she took the photo with her...I hope you all understand why I wanted to keep this behind closed doors... Please dont be too quick to judge. All I am asking for is for Rhamlin to send me another photo,,, .. Rhamlin is no longer responding to any of my pm's...
Whoa I feel better now
Im sorry JJ but you were bound to find out sooner or later

Shaun.Harrison87

The Kid:
Ok,, after reading everything here,, I gues its best to just let the forum decide what the best course of action is for all parties....
It all started about a month ago when I received a bomb from Rhamalam,,aka (Rhamlin) the brother sent me some awesome sticks,, He also included,, which I did not post, a picture of himself wearin nuthin but a man thong and the rest of his body was covered in what appeared to be Peanut butter (creamy) and Marshmallow Creme... Well I did what any one of us would do.. I stashed the picture away and would look at it when I was alone,,,,, Well My GF knew something had changed in our relationship,, and became more and more suspicious..One day it all came to a head when she saw me stocking up on Creamy peanut butter and Marshmallow creme,, She confronted me,, I broke down, confessed and showed her the picture...

She was shocked but we made love that night like never before.. The next morning I awoke and she was gone,, all that was left was a note explaining how the picture ruined her for other men and she was leaving me, now in search of, the man of her dreams..

Well as you all can imagine I am devastated, not because my GF left but because she took the photo with her...I hope you all understand why I wanted to keep this behind closed doors... Please dont be too quick to judge. All I am asking for is for Rhamlin to send me another photo,,, .. Rhamlin is no longer responding to any of my pm's...
Whoa I feel better now
Im sorry JJ but you were bound to find out sooner or later

BAHAHAHAHAHAH...UNREAL!

The Sniper

xmacro:
But just keep in mind that most of the things that plague our society today started off as good ideas that outlived their usefulness; I really hope the day come soon when this is no longer needed

A MASSIVE +1 on this. Nothing would make me happier than for this idea to fade into irrelevance because it is not needed. I remember a time when everyone in this community conducted themselves as a gentleman should, and treated all others the same way. Perhaps it was just me not seeing things with a clear lens, but we really need to get back to that.

The Sniper

The Kid:
Ok,, after reading everything here,, I gues its best to just let the forum decide what the best course of action is for all parties....
It all started about a month ago when I received a bomb from Rhamalam,,aka (Rhamlin) the brother sent me some awesome sticks,, He also included,, which I did not post, a picture of himself wearin nuthin but a man thong and the rest of his body was covered in what appeared to be Peanut butter (creamy) and Marshmallow Creme... Well I did what any one of us would do.. I stashed the picture away and would look at it when I was alone,,,,, Well My GF knew something had changed in our relationship,, and became more and more suspicious..One day it all came to a head when she saw me stocking up on Creamy peanut butter and Marshmallow creme,, She confronted me,, I broke down, confessed and showed her the picture...

She was shocked but we made love that night like never before.. The next morning I awoke and she was gone,, all that was left was a note explaining how the picture ruined her for other men and she was leaving me, now in search of, the man of her dreams..

Well as you all can imagine I am devastated, not because my GF left but because she took the photo with her...I hope you all understand why I wanted to keep this behind closed doors... Please dont be too quick to judge. All I am asking for is for Rhamlin to send me another photo,,, .. Rhamlin is no longer responding to any of my pm's...
Whoa I feel better now
Im sorry JJ but you were bound to find out sooner or later

This ones easy - I call upon all BOTL to hunt down The Kid's GF, recover his picture, and HANG HER ON THE SPOT.

Further, HANG RHAMLIN for the crime of showing the gate of heaven to A BOTL in good standing and then closing him out of it.

NEXT! :-D

Goldy

The Kid:
Ok,, after reading everything here,, I gues its best to just let the forum decide what the best course of action is for all parties....
It all started about a month ago when I received a bomb from Rhamalam,,aka (Rhamlin) the brother sent me some awesome sticks,, He also included,, which I did not post, a picture of himself wearin nuthin but a man thong and the rest of his body was covered in what appeared to be Peanut butter (creamy) and Marshmallow Creme... Well I did what any one of us would do.. I stashed the picture away and would look at it when I was alone,,,,, Well My GF knew something had changed in our relationship,, and became more and more suspicious..One day it all came to a head when she saw me stocking up on Creamy peanut butter and Marshmallow creme,, She confronted me,, I broke down, confessed and showed her the picture...

She was shocked but we made love that night like never before.. The next morning I awoke and she was gone,, all that was left was a note explaining how the picture ruined her for other men and she was leaving me, now in search of, the man of her dreams..

Well as you all can imagine I am devastated, not because my GF left but because she took the photo with her...I hope you all understand why I wanted to keep this behind closed doors... Please dont be too quick to judge. All I am asking for is for Rhamlin to send me another photo,,, .. Rhamlin is no longer responding to any of my pm's...
Whoa I feel better now
Im sorry JJ but you were bound to find out sooner or later

I have a spare copy of that photo that I can send you.

Toombes

The Sniper:
The Kid:
Ok,, after reading everything here,, I gues its best to just let the forum decide what the best course of action is for all parties....
It all started about a month ago when I received a bomb from Rhamalam,,aka (Rhamlin) the brother sent me some awesome sticks,, He also included,, which I did not post, a picture of himself wearin nuthin but a man thong and the rest of his body was covered in what appeared to be Peanut butter (creamy) and Marshmallow Creme... Well I did what any one of us would do.. I stashed the picture away and would look at it when I was alone,,,,, Well My GF knew something had changed in our relationship,, and became more and more suspicious..One day it all came to a head when she saw me stocking up on Creamy peanut butter and Marshmallow creme,, She confronted me,, I broke down, confessed and showed her the picture...

She was shocked but we made love that night like never before.. The next morning I awoke and she was gone,, all that was left was a note explaining how the picture ruined her for other men and she was leaving me, now in search of, the man of her dreams..

Well as you all can imagine I am devastated, not because my GF left but because she took the photo with her...I hope you all understand why I wanted to keep this behind closed doors... Please dont be too quick to judge. All I am asking for is for Rhamlin to send me another photo,,, .. Rhamlin is no longer responding to any of my pm's...
Whoa I feel better now
Im sorry JJ but you were bound to find out sooner or later
This ones easy - I call upon all BOTL to hunt down The Kid's GF, recover his picture, and HANG HER ON THE SPOT.

Further, HANG RHAMLIN for the crime of showing the gate of heaven to A BOTL in good standing and then closing him out of it.

NEXT! :-D

Thanks Rudy and Glen! I just snorted Diet Pepsi through my nose and inhaled a lungful of Trinidad TTT smoke... Funny as Hell! Rudy, I hope you can pull through this with a clear conscious.

bandyt09

The Sniper:
This ones easy - I call upon all BOTL to hunt down The Kid's GF, recover his picture, and HANG HER ON THE SPOT.

Glen, I hope you don't mind but I took the liberty to help Rudy out on this. As soon as I finished reading Rudy post, I wiped the tears from my eyes, I borrowed Wonder Woman's plane (that is another story for another time ) flew to West Virginia, knocked on Rhamlin's door and there stood Rudy's GF, covered in Marshmellow Fluff, a little Karo syrup, some chocolate chips and Rhamlin laying on the floor in a sugar coma.......

By the way Rudy, your picture was in an umentionable place and you really really don't want it back.

Seeing Rhamlin, live and in person, covered in CHUNKY peanut butter has really made me change my thinking about West VIrginia............................................................My house is now on the market, wife and kids included, and I am moving to WV......................

The Kid

Toombes:
The Sniper:
The Kid:
Ok,, after reading everything here,, I gues its best to just let the forum decide what the best course of action is for all parties....
It all started about a month ago when I received a bomb from Rhamalam,,aka (Rhamlin) the brother sent me some awesome sticks,, He also included,, which I did not post, a picture of himself wearin nuthin but a man thong and the rest of his body was covered in what appeared to be Peanut butter (creamy) and Marshmallow Creme... Well I did what any one of us would do.. I stashed the picture away and would look at it when I was alone,,,,, Well My GF knew something had changed in our relationship,, and became more and more suspicious..One day it all came to a head when she saw me stocking up on Creamy peanut butter and Marshmallow creme,, She confronted me,, I broke down, confessed and showed her the picture...

She was shocked but we made love that night like never before.. The next morning I awoke and she was gone,, all that was left was a note explaining how the picture ruined her for other men and she was leaving me, now in search of, the man of her dreams..

Well as you all can imagine I am devastated, not because my GF left but because she took the photo with her...I hope you all understand why I wanted to keep this behind closed doors... Please dont be too quick to judge. All I am asking for is for Rhamlin to send me another photo,,, .. Rhamlin is no longer responding to any of my pm's...
Whoa I feel better now
Im sorry JJ but you were bound to find out sooner or later
This ones easy - I call upon all BOTL to hunt down The Kid's GF, recover his picture, and HANG HER ON THE SPOT.

Further, HANG RHAMLIN for the crime of showing the gate of heaven to A BOTL in good standing and then closing him out of it.

NEXT! :-D

Thanks Rudy and Glen! I just snorted Diet Pepsi through my nose and inhaled a lungful of Trinidad TTT smoke... Funny as Hell! Rudy, I hope you can pull through this with a clear conscious.

Thanks for reachin out to me in my time of distress,,, One day at a time brother!!!,, I do hope that Glen reconsiders his resolution,, Hangin is too severe and not what I wanted,, I mean you really cant fault my GF and even though I dont have the photo, the memories will last a lifetime. Somehow I think Rhamalam in his wisdom knew this all along....So please no hangings.

Direwolf

The Kid:
Ok,, after reading everything here,, I gues its best to just let the forum decide what the best course of action is for all parties....
It all started about a month ago when I received a bomb from Rhamalam,,aka (Rhamlin) the brother sent me some awesome sticks,, He also included,, which I did not post, a picture of himself wearin nuthin but a man thong and the rest of his body was covered in what appeared to be Peanut butter (creamy) and Marshmallow Creme... Well I did what any one of us would do.. I stashed the picture away and would look at it when I was alone,,,,, Well My GF knew something had changed in our relationship,, and became more and more suspicious..One day it all came to a head when she saw me stocking up on Creamy peanut butter and Marshmallow creme,, She confronted me,, I broke down, confessed and showed her the picture...

She was shocked but we made love that night like never before.. The next morning I awoke and she was gone,, all that was left was a note explaining how the picture ruined her for other men and she was leaving me, now in search of, the man of her dreams..

Well as you all can imagine I am devastated, not because my GF left but because she took the photo with her...I hope you all understand why I wanted to keep this behind closed doors... Please dont be too quick to judge. All I am asking for is for Rhamlin to send me another photo,,, .. Rhamlin is no longer responding to any of my pm's...
Whoa I feel better now
Im sorry JJ but you were bound to find out sooner or later

I got a picture of me wearing the Superman Underoos I had as a kid and the seasoning packets from Ramen stapled to my nipples.If'n it'll help you get over the pain I'll gladly send it to you.

The Kid

Direwolf:
The Kid:
Ok,, after reading everything here,, I gues its best to just let the forum decide what the best course of action is for all parties....
It all started about a month ago when I received a bomb from Rhamalam,,aka (Rhamlin) the brother sent me some awesome sticks,, He also included,, which I did not post, a picture of himself wearin nuthin but a man thong and the rest of his body was covered in what appeared to be Peanut butter (creamy) and Marshmallow Creme... Well I did what any one of us would do.. I stashed the picture away and would look at it when I was alone,,,,, Well My GF knew something had changed in our relationship,, and became more and more suspicious..One day it all came to a head when she saw me stocking up on Creamy peanut butter and Marshmallow creme,, She confronted me,, I broke down, confessed and showed her the picture...

She was shocked but we made love that night like never before.. The next morning I awoke and she was gone,, all that was left was a note explaining how the picture ruined her for other men and she was leaving me, now in search of, the man of her dreams..

Well as you all can imagine I am devastated, not because my GF left but because she took the photo with her...I hope you all understand why I wanted to keep this behind closed doors... Please dont be too quick to judge. All I am asking for is for Rhamlin to send me another photo,,, .. Rhamlin is no longer responding to any of my pm's...
Whoa I feel better now
Im sorry JJ but you were bound to find out sooner or later
I got a picture of me wearing the Superman Underoos I had as a kid and the seasoning packets from Ramen stapled to my nipples.If'n it'll help you get over the pain I'll gladly send it to you.

The support of all you brothers is bringing tears to my eyes,, Thank You Direwolf,, But no,, It just wouldnt be the same!!!!