Has anyone sent him a PM to have him look at this thread? We may think everyone checks every thread here but a little CYA would be good before running him over.
Hahahaha, this has happened.Daniel - Cigarman, you put Zodians in my pass. And you need to post pictures!Cigarman - Great pass guys!Daniel - CIGARMAN! STOP SENDING ZODIANS!Cigarman - Anyone want to do a premium five for five trade?So...he knows.
I tried pming him a few times before ever saying anything publicly on the forums and the pms were read and never replied to. He's well aware of what he's doing and what we are saying and just ignores it and continues to profit.
Has anyone sent him a PM to have him look at this thread? We may think everyone checks every thread here but a little CYA would be good before running him over.
this has been going on for a long time and many people have been burned by him ranging from glock to shizza to pelerojo to pretty much every lotto winner and every single person whose pass he has been a part of. All of us have tried to get in touch with him about the issues we were seeing and he doesn't care.
he doesn't care 1 bit boys, he probably sitting there laughing that we are still taliking about him. All the guys who played poker with him knew what he was all about, nothing has changed. he will move on to another forum and start all over.
Has anyone sent him a PM to have him look at this thread? We may think everyone checks every thread here but a little CYA would be good before running him over.
this has been going on for a long time and many people have been burned by him ranging from glock to shizza to pelerojo to pretty much every lotto winner and every single person whose pass he has been a part of. All of us have tried to get in touch with him about the issues we were seeing and he doesn't care.
Has anyone sent him a PM to have him look at this thread? We may think everyone checks every thread here but a little CYA would be good before running him over.
this has been going on for a long time and many people have been burned by him ranging from glock to shizza to pelerojo to pretty much every lotto winner and every single person whose pass he has been a part of. All of us have tried to get in touch with him about the issues we were seeing and he doesn't care.
Then why has this gone on so long? You get what you get if you stay silent. Glad Vulchor started this. Pay him his lottery winnings and keep sending him contest winnings then. So silly. Why not send those lottery winnings to people he screwed over? Somehow that makes sense but no one wants to make sense here.
Because if one person calls someone out they get destroyed. It has happened here before. Unless multiple members have a problem, then good luck. When the people that Cigarman screwed over spoke to others that he screwed, it became obvious that this was not an isolated incident.There are active members who are known to destroy passes now, should they be called out too? Probably not. There is a difference between being inconsiderate and flat out ripping people off.Curt has the best solution possible. Wood tips in a manila envelope...you reap what you sow.
because 90% of the people that he has screwed over are nice people at heart and don't want to make a big deal out of it. As it continued and he didn't change his ways it became apparent that someone needed to say something, it just so happens that Danielrus opened the flood gates.
because 90% of the people that he has screwed over are nice people at heart and don't want to make a big deal out of it. As it continued and he didn't change his ways it became apparent that someone needed to say something, it just so happens that Danielrus opened the flood gates.
One person gets screwed, shame on you. 45 people get screwed, shame on everyone for not saying anything.
Because if one person calls someone out they get destroyed. It has happened here before. Unless multiple members have a problem, then good luck. When the people that Cigarman screwed over spoke to others that he screwed, it became obvious that this was not an isolated incident.There are active members who are known to destroy passes now, should they be called out too? Probably not. There is a difference between being inconsiderate and flat out ripping people off.Curt has the best solution possible. Wood tips in a manila envelope...you reap what you sow.
Just wondering what you mean by destroying passes.
Because if one person calls someone out they get destroyed. It has happened here before. Unless multiple members have a problem, then good luck. When the people that Cigarman screwed over spoke to others that he screwed, it became obvious that this was not an isolated incident.There are active members who are known to destroy passes now, should they be called out too? Probably not. There is a difference between being inconsiderate and flat out ripping people off.Curt has the best solution possible. Wood tips in a manila envelope...you reap what you sow.
I haven't sent his lotto winnings to him yet. This is crazy as he seems nice. Should I send him some black and milds? lol I trust what all you guys say.
Takes - Padron, OpusPuts - 5 V Gold, Fighting **** and Kuba Kuba
Gotcha. Thought you meant like hurt all the cigars or shipped badly i.e. destroying it but that makes sense too. Just to add though, I like fighting co ck as a good yardgar and think they're worth having around hence why I've sent one to many people. I never meant to slight anyone with them...
Because if one person calls someone out they get destroyed. It has happened here before. Unless multiple members have a problem, then good luck. When the people that Cigarman screwed over spoke to others that he screwed, it became obvious that this was not an isolated incident.There are active members who are known to destroy passes now, should they be called out too? Probably not. There is a difference between being inconsiderate and flat out ripping people off.Curt has the best solution possible. Wood tips in a manila envelope...you reap what you sow.
I haven't sent his lotto winnings to him yet. This is crazy as he seems nice. Should I send him some black and milds? lol I trust what all you guys say.
That's different. A bomb is a gift and is more of a "thought that counts" then "here are 5 ISOMs signed by Castro".A pass is usually "take X amount and replace what you took with sticks of roughly equal value."PS - I like Fighting **** too.Which is my point above. If you can, in good faith, take and Opus and replace it was a 5V...you're not wrong, you're inconsiderate. If you outright just take a pass, or steal or lie, or "donate to the troops" and actually you are just gonna smoke em all....then you're ripping people off.
Has anyone sent him a PM to have him look at this thread? We may think everyone checks every thread here but a little CYA would be good before running him over.
this has been going on for a long time and many people have been burned by him ranging from glock to shizza to pelerojo to pretty much every lotto winner and every single person whose pass he has been a part of. All of us have tried to get in touch with him about the issues we were seeing and he doesn't care.
Then why has this gone on so long? You get what you get if you stay silent. Glad Vulchor started this. Pay him his lottery winnings and keep sending him contest winnings then. So silly. Why not send those lottery winnings to people he screwed over? Somehow that makes sense but no one wants to make sense here.
I think there are several issues here. First, if this is just a guy that simply doesn't understand the difference between a good stick and a "dog rocket" then we can and should help him learn by exposing him to a variety of better sticks. Likewise if it is a financial issue and all he is up only able to afford are $1 and $2 sticks then we have an opportunity to help a brother. I see this type of kindness on the forum all the time. And I've seen inexpensive bombs (including a couple I've sent) received graciously. Similarly with the camera issue. If he really doesn't have a camera or the skill to use it then we will certainly miss the pictures but so be it. I don't think cigarman fits that category (but if someone knows differently, please speak up) Second, if this is a guy that does know better and does have the means to play fair and chooses not to then he shouldn't get to play with us. I've reviewed a lot of his posts over the last couple of days and there a lot of things that bother me. He starts a pass that REQUIRES pictures but refuses to post his own; and I've seen several people try to help him understand that others on the forum don't like some off the dog rockets he is sending out in trades and passes. Add this to the irony of listing mostly high end sticks as his favorites and my opinion is that this is a guy trying to take advantage of some good BOTL and SOTL. And that's not cool. Third is the issue of how we ought to respond to this kind of thing. I have mixed feelings about a tread like this mostly because it feels "icky". In this sense it is akin to having to put a burglar alarm in your house. The thing I am very clear about is that some of us entered a contest knowing he was a participant and because of that we need to pay lest we become the thing we don't like about him. For my part I sent him midrange sticks that I enjoy including a couple on his "likes" list because from my perspective that was the right thing to do. But, in support of the brother and sisterhood, I won't enter another pass or contest with him as a participant.
Takes - Padron, OpusPuts - 5 V Gold, Fighting **** and Kuba Kuba
Yeah....not cool.
I certainly agree with what you're getting at ... quantity does not equal quality.
However, I generally look at things like this as "new guy" mistakes. I would cut some slack here if pictures had been posted and the other pass members had a chance address the issue of unequal takes and puts. But it seems like in this case PMs went unanswered and the offender never made an effort to resolve grievances.
Heck, when I was starting out - to me, a cigar was a cigar was a cigar. I didn't have an extensive knowledge of brands and their prices, and I didn't know the value of some of these rarer and/or super premium cigars that a person who had been smoking for 5+ years would (most likely) know about. But if someone called me out and said hey you know that Opus and 5V aren't a fair 1-for-1 trade, I'd say ok and offer to "make right".
Since there were no pictures and no opportunity for the other folks in the pass to address unequal takes and puts --- and the person's been around for a while and should have a general idea that padron/opus is not equal to 5v/fighting ***. Yeah, not kosher. Not a good way to do "business" on here. Live and learn, feel bad for those who got burnt....but I think everyone on the forum can learn something from this. I know I have.
IDK, just my $0.02.
because 90% of the people that he has screwed over are nice people at heart and don't want to make a big deal out of it. As it continued and he didn't change his ways it became apparent that someone needed to say something, it just so happens that Danielrus opened the flood gates.
One person gets screwed, shame on you. 45 people get screwed, shame on everyone for not saying anything.
I didn't get screwed so much as saw people get screwed, and I've been lambasted so many times for calling people out that I'm tired of it. I took this one off. F*** me for that.
OK guys.....Just some thoughts .... I will stay out of this discussion from this point.
Does it occur to you that some folks on here can't afford the heavy hits, and could end up on your list..? Does it occur to you that some people really appreciate the bombs, but can't reciprocate in kind and could end up on your list..?
Does it occur to you that 5 Vegas may be someones only cigars because that is what he/she likes and can afford...could end up on your list..? That some people on here might be slow posting a package because there is a legitimate reason and could end up on your list..? This has already been hinted at by previous posts so it is possible.
I hesitate to post this ..... because someone will take it the wrong way .... be careful with your list .... I have seen a forum suffer because of a similar list .... I have seen another forum end up being sued .... "The Bad Trader & Scumbag List" is already out there, do you need another..?
So after the problem is resolved, you show up and offer up your wisdom...while blaming everyone that got screwed.Well done.
Randy, if this to pointed to me, im always here i never just show up, i tried to handle the poker winnings cigarman owed people, over and over again. I told several not to send him any winnings if he won caused he owed people, and thought about banning him, but who am i, i just started the league. I covered him once for his debts and that was the last time, i don't blame anyone else, if someone who didnt get his cigars cigarman still ows, i would be happy send them out for his debts, since i started the league.
So after the problem is resolved, you show up and offer up your wisdom...while blaming everyone that got screwed.Well done.
Haha. Sorry if I don't read all the passes, poker games, trade threads, etc to be your logic police. If you see a pattern of behavior like this and don't seek to correct it then you allowed it to happen. Either by contacting the person to help confidentially deal with the issue or talk to others for opinions on the actions. Are you to blame? No. Could you have helped the problem before it got to this point. Yes.
Which is exactly what this thread is trying to tell you. You see something that sends a signal to the back of your brain that might not be right. Figure it out and deal with it. Don't ignore it and say you are the better person because you didn't let it affect you.
So after the problem is resolved, you show up and offer up your wisdom...while blaming everyone that got screwed.Well done.
Randy, if this to pointed to me, im always here i never just show up, i tried to handle the poker winnings cigarman owed people, over and over again. I told several not to send him any winnings if he won caused he owed people, and thought about banning him, but who am i, i just started the league. I covered him once for his debts and that was the last time, i don't blame anyone else, if someone who didnt get his cigars cigarman still ows, i would be happy send them out for his debts, since i started the league.
Comments
I certainly agree with what you're getting at ... quantity does not equal quality.
However, I generally look at things like this as "new guy" mistakes. I would cut some slack here if pictures had been posted and the other pass members had a chance address the issue of unequal takes and puts. But it seems like in this case PMs went unanswered and the offender never made an effort to resolve grievances.
Heck, when I was starting out - to me, a cigar was a cigar was a cigar. I didn't have an extensive knowledge of brands and their prices, and I didn't know the value of some of these rarer and/or super premium cigars that a person who had been smoking for 5+ years would (most likely) know about. But if someone called me out and said hey you know that Opus and 5V aren't a fair 1-for-1 trade, I'd say ok and offer to "make right".
Since there were no pictures and no opportunity for the other folks in the pass to address unequal takes and puts --- and the person's been around for a while and should have a general idea that padron/opus is not equal to 5v/fighting ***. Yeah, not kosher. Not a good way to do "business" on here. Live and learn, feel bad for those who got burnt....but I think everyone on the forum can learn something from this. I know I have.
IDK, just my $0.02.
Does it occur to you that some folks on here can't afford the heavy hits, and could end up on your list..?
Does it occur to you that some people really appreciate the bombs, but can't reciprocate in kind and could end up on your list..?
Does it occur to you that 5 Vegas may be someones only cigars because that is what he/she likes and can afford...could end up on your list..?
That some people on here might be slow posting a package because there is a legitimate reason and could end up on your list..?
This has already been hinted at by previous posts so it is possible.
I hesitate to post this ..... because someone will take it the wrong way .... be careful with your list .... I have seen a forum suffer because of a similar list .... I have seen another forum end up being sued .... "The Bad Trader & Scumbag List" is already out there, do you need another..?
Which is exactly what this thread is trying to tell you. You see something that sends a signal to the back of your brain that might not be right. Figure it out and deal with it. Don't ignore it and say you are the better person because you didn't let it affect you.