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The Good Muslim

Amos UmwhatAmos Umwhat Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 2,523
I've been thinking about this recently, since the post about the Mosque near the 9/11 site. After 9/11 I took the time to read the Koran, and, from my decidedly Christian viewpoint, I thought: "If God wants to call someone to him through this document, He can." I followed this later with reading Rumi, a 13th century Persian poet, who decidedly was a devout and divinely inspired Muslim, who famously said: "I've been to the Synagogue, the Cathedral, and the Mosque, I saw One Altar." So, I figured the "good" muslims are out there, just afraid, as were the "good" Christians in Germany during the rise of Hitler. There is, however, an undeniable sickness in Islam today. I recently received what I shall paraphrase below, some thoughts adapted from Dr. Peter Hammond's book: Slavery Terrorism and Islam. Apparently there is a kind of critical mass effect when Muslims settle into a new area. At under 2%, they will be regarded as a peace-loving minority, not a threat, as is seen in the U.S., Australia, Canada, China, etc. At 2 - 5 % the begin to proselytize, often recruiting from the jails and street gangs, as in Denmark, Germany, UK, Spain. After 5% they begin to exercise an inordinate influence, pushing for halal (food laws) and pushing for this in supermarket chains etc., to include threats to the owners. After 10% open lawlessness begins, with car burnings and crime such as is being seen in Paris and Amsterdam, and non-muslim action resulting in uprisings and threats. After 20% nations can expect hair-trigger rioting, jihad, killings, burning of Christian churches and Jewish synagogues. After 40%, massacres, militia warfare, as seen in Bosnia, Chad, and Lebanon. Larger Muslim populations routinely engage in ethnic cleansing, genocide, etc. See the recent history of countries such as indonesia, Iran, Syria, Sudan, etc. The follow quote from Leon Uris "The Haj" describes 100% populations: 'Before I was nine, I haed learned the basic canon of Arab life. It was me against my brother, me and my brother against my father; my family against my cousins and the clan; the clan against the tribe; the tribe against the world, and all of us against the infidel." A few years ago, I read a book by Alan Bloom titled: The Closing of the American Mind. Bloom contends that in is through tolerance that our culture will fall. At first, I thought "no way", after all, we need to be tolerant, don't we? Well, I'm starting to wonder. I'm thinking that if we remain tolerant of the intolerant, the world will soon become intolerable. Like the old maxim: All that is needed for evil to flourish is for good men to do nothing. Food for thought, anyone see differently, or a productive way out of this mess? Thanks for listening, y'all, just had to get this out there.
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Comments

  • One2gofstOne2gofst Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 583
  • Amos UmwhatAmos Umwhat Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 2,523
    thanks for the response, your sentiments echo mine nearly exactly. This came to me via E-Mail, I am not familiar with the Writers that were referenced, except my own reference to Alan Bloom. It just disturbed me. What is happening now in the muslim world seems to me contrary to my (limited) studies on the subject. Also, I would love to break this up into paragraphs, but, for some reason when I've tried that in the past the computer posts what I'm writing wherever I am at the moment. My bad, no doubt, as I haven't taken the time to figure out what I'm doing wrong.
  • Rob1110Rob1110 Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 1,454
  • One2gofstOne2gofst Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 583
  • One2gofstOne2gofst Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 583
    Rob, while there may truly be "good" Muslims as there are "good" of any type of people the dilemma I run into is the utter lack of opposition to the "radicals" by the "good". In my opinion, no matter how "good" someone's principles are, if they witness atrocities and implicitly give their approval with silence, they are guilty as well. It goes both ways. If one is silent when one group is attacked, yet cries fowl when they themselves are, it is a hard sell. Forget the emotions and personal investment for a moment. If there are two people, A and B and a third party C and every time A attacks B C is silent, but if B does anything towards A, C is crying out about wrongdoings for the world to hear, who's side is C on? Now that I just typed that, I imagine the same things could be said about a lot of "Americans," especially many of those on the national stage.
  • fla-gypsyfla-gypsy Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 3,023
    The absolutely most intolerant societies that exist today are Muslim. They allow slavery, torture, and degradation as a way of life. If Jihad comes to your street, what will you do??
  • wwesternwwestern Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 1,386
    You must be wrong Mr. gypsy cause Obama says muslims are great and we should kiss their feet....he wouldn't lie about anything to do with muslim stuff would he?
  • One2gofstOne2gofst Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 583
  • wwesternwwestern Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 1,386
    You think the fact that we have a president that at a minimum has heard alot of muslim propaganda in his time is not tied to this? An attack on American soil happened and we're going to let them build a monument to it? (before you dispute this look up the original name they wanted for the mosque and it's meaning) What I would have him say is "Who's building the trophy of slain Americans so I know who's ass to kick!" Appearently an accident in the gulf is worth an ass kicking.....so surely this attrocity merrits one? Maybe he'll find the time to reconsider his backing of this inbetween groveling to the different nations of the world. Just my two cents on why dead Americans are being disrespected. I'm all for individual rights but when you have a group of people who engage in mass murder you lose certain rights. But it's ok just keep selling yourself on tolerence of terrorist hopefully it works out. Me personally I'll be the "hate monger" who keeps his distance from people who practice such a religion.
  • One2gofstOne2gofst Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 583
  • wwesternwwestern Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 1,386
    No sir I don't believe you're supporting Islam I just believe when you have a group who's beliefs call for the destruction of America maybe it's time to pull in the reigns. How about the rights of others to be free from the fear of these people? By your logic the gang divisions in law enforcement have no merrit or right to do what they do? Keeping people safe from violent groups IMO falls under a protection catagory and not oppresion. Also allowing this mosque to be built will send one hell of a weak message. Rational to you or not makes no difference, and at this point I think it seems to be common knowledge not speculation when you have former muslims coming out to speak about how things really are. Just in case the speculation claim is for my comment about obama http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremiah_Wright sounds a little muslimish to me...
  • vegassparkyvegassparky Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 365
    wanted to chime in on this, but figured i didnt want part of the debate. I too, because of patriotic, emotions thank the mosque being but there is extreme bad taste. but One2gofst is right, telling them they cant put it there is against there rights. But the muslims putting it there can be viewed as instigation. you wouldnt put a nazi memorial next to a jewish place of worship! and any good muslim that would want to try to reverse the damage, to the mental picture the world paints there religion in,would think about another place for the mosque. freedom or not, building the mosque anywhere near ground zero is in bad taste.
  • One2gofstOne2gofst Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 583
  • One2gofstOne2gofst Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 583
    Just as an aside and in the interest of full disclosure, there is currently a mosque, which has been there since 1970, just 2 blocks up and one block over from the site of the new one, which is 3 blocks from ground zero ;)
  • wwesternwwestern Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 1,386
    Yeah you're right it's irrational to attempt to stifle mass murderers, and an emotional issue to hold on to those silly memories of what happened on 9-11.
  • fla-gypsyfla-gypsy Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 3,023
    At what point did sedition become a religion?? We swallow a camel to help Muslims and strain at a gnat to keep Christianity out of every facet of public life but we should protect mass murderers because they claim they are a religion.
  • One2gofstOne2gofst Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 583
  • wwesternwwestern Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 1,386
    This is why I pray for america every single night. Political correctness is a cancer on our society. Letting those who wish americans harm run wild in the name of PC, that should work out great. Hindering the operations of those who want the destruction of america is oppresive? So yeah it's my "intellectual scrutiny" that's in question because I want to protect americans and the american way of life....makes sense.
  • cabinetmakercabinetmaker Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 2,561
  • kuzi16kuzi16 Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 14,471
  • laker1963laker1963 Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 5,046
  • laker1963laker1963 Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 5,046
  • Amos UmwhatAmos Umwhat Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 2,523
    I've just spent a couple of grueling 14 hour days at work in the ICU, and haven't had time to keep up with this until now, but I've been thinking about it. Thanks to all for your input, many diverse and well thought-out ideas, as well as some nearly unavoidable prejudices, unavoidable considering the emotional impact of the recent history. (drat, I forgot to look back at how to paragraph, will try that next time) I think that my own biggest mistake in considering all this has been that I read the Koran, as well as Karen Armstrongs bio of Mohammed. You see, Mohammed told his followers that they were to read all the Christian and Jewish texts, that the God he was telling them about was the God of Jesus, Moses, and Abraham. Obviously, they've forgotten this, since carrying a Bible is a punishable offense in many muslim nations. My error was comparable to reading the New Testament as a way of figuring out what was wrong with Timothy McVeigh. The real danger, the real enemy of all peaceful, thinking human beings, is Extremism! Not Islam, but Islamism, not Judaism, but Zionism, not the Christian religion, but the extremist sects who have commited atrocities like burning all the Jews in their village because they thought it would make God happy and he would cure them of the Bubonic Plague. Fundamentalists and extremists of every stripe are trying to bring about some form of Armageddon, seemingly believing that by accomplishing the ultimate destruction of God's Creation, that he will then welcome them with open arms for getting rid of His enemies. Doesn't sound too smart to me. At any rate, I certainly enjoy these conversations with all of you, it is encouraging to me that so many of you think these things through. Sometimes it seems to me that thinking, truly THINKING, is becoming a lost art. Y'all give me hope!
  • kuzi16kuzi16 Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 14,471
  • RedtailhawkozRedtailhawkoz Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 2,914
    WOW this is some Heavy Discussion... WOuldnt touch it with a TEN FOOT POLE!
  • cabinetmakercabinetmaker Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 2,561
    The comparison to Germany is not valid. The German atrocities commited by Hitler were 1) within German borders and lands conquered by Germany; and 2) were commited by a government. The German army and SS would round up and shoot anyone who spoke out. Not the same circumstances at all with a religion that in this country has no borders.
  • cabinetmakercabinetmaker Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 2,561
    cabinetmaker:
    The comparison to Germany is not valid. The German atrocities commited by Hitler were 1) within German borders and lands conquered by Germany; and 2) were commited by a government. The German army and SS would round up and shoot anyone who spoke out. Not the same circumstances at all with a religion that in this country has no borders.
    And as such, the percentages of Germans vs. Muslims are irrelevant.
  • kuzi16kuzi16 Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 14,471
  • stephen_hannibalstephen_hannibal Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 4,317
  • cabinetmakercabinetmaker Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 2,561
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