Pheebs. I can't believe you are still banging your head against the wall in this thread. There have been others who after months of frustrations have just left the forums altogether. Don't let that happen with you Pheebs.
Now, I hope NOT to start something here with this statement but...
Pheebs, Kuzi is a nice guy, with lot's of cigar knowledge. However, he is also someone who refuses to be wrong, or to (as he see's it) lose an arguement or debate.
Your valid points will be brushed aside, or ignored completely and new points which favor his views will be constantly inserted.
I gave up trying to convince Kuzi (and Puro too) that thier views were not the only views out there, or even that thier views were NOT in step with millions of other Americans.
There are people out there who would argue about something even after it has been totally proven to be wrong. (The Israeli's come to mind) Kuzi and Puro fall into this category. It is very hard to pin down a moving target. (IMO)
I just don't want to see more GOOD members leave the forums over political debate that goes nowhere. I think after a while winning the debate becomes much more important to some people then the information being passed back and forth. Too bad, because with these types of blinders on, true debate only suffers.
If you are only willing to grace the world with your knowledge, while refusing that others knowledge is as useful, and necessary as your own... then you are not debateing. You are just waiting for the other person to stop talking their trash so that you can get back to educating the masses.
Let's get back to talking about cigars. Not one thing said in this forum is going to change a damned thing in the real world, unfortunatley.
Laker, I will toast to every d@mn thing you just said. Pheebs and I both get emotional on issues (and I know you do do---including on my end, my little fit I had with you awhile back), and get ready to leave this place because of the closed mindedness, inability to admit flaws in opinions, and overinflated sense of self opinion around here....but on cigars we all can enjoy a good conversation and common ground and thats at least something. Thanks for the cool temper from one of the guys on here that doesnt always have one.
Yup. sound advice.
funny, when you have an opinion you are always right. when i have an opinion i am always wrong. you claim i wont ever change my opinion... yet i doubt you will either. you bush aside my links, refuse to look at them in many cases even though they are true, and have been vetted, but somehow I am the one that is wrong. and what about the opinions of millions of americans that arent on your side? that agree with me and puro? you just sweep them under the carpet too. you sir are a hypocrite as well. only 42% Support Health Care Reform After Release of Pelosi's Version
but that statistic means nothing to you. im still wrong.
Ya know Kuz, it's funny to me that we are called "racists" yet anti semitic views run rampant throughout the left in this country and across the world... I guess by their line of thinking Hitler was just trying to defend the poor people in Palestine...
Pheebs. I can't believe you are still banging your head against the wall in this thread. There have been others who after months of frustrations have just left the forums altogether. Don't let that happen with you Pheebs.
Now, I hope NOT to start something here with this statement but...
Pheebs, Kuzi is a nice guy, with lot's of cigar knowledge. However, he is also someone who refuses to be wrong, or to (as he see's it) lose an arguement or debate.
Your valid points will be brushed aside, or ignored completely and new points which favor his views will be constantly inserted.
I gave up trying to convince Kuzi (and Puro too) that thier views were not the only views out there, or even that thier views were NOT in step with millions of other Americans.
There are people out there who would argue about something even after it has been totally proven to be wrong. (The Israeli's come to mind) Kuzi and Puro fall into this category. It is very hard to pin down a moving target. (IMO)
I just don't want to see more GOOD members leave the forums over political debate that goes nowhere. I think after a while winning the debate becomes much more important to some people then the information being passed back and forth. Too bad, because with these types of blinders on, true debate only suffers.
If you are only willing to grace the world with your knowledge, while refusing that others knowledge is as useful, and necessary as your own... then you are not debateing. You are just waiting for the other person to stop talking their trash so that you can get back to educating the masses.
Let's get back to talking about cigars. Not one thing said in this forum is going to change a damned thing in the real world, unfortunatley.
Laker, I will toast to every d@mn thing you just said. Pheebs and I both get emotional on issues (and I know you do do---including on my end, my little fit I had with you awhile back), and get ready to leave this place because of the closed mindedness, inability to admit flaws in opinions, and overinflated sense of self opinion around here....but on cigars we all can enjoy a good conversation and common ground and thats at least something. Thanks for the cool temper from one of the guys on here that doesnt always have one.
Yup. sound advice.
funny, when you have an opinion you are always right. when i have an opinion i am always wrong. you claim i wont ever change my opinion... yet i doubt you will either. you bush aside my links, refuse to look at them in many cases even though they are true, and have been vetted, but somehow I am the one that is wrong. and what about the opinions of millions of americans that arent on your side? that agree with me and puro? you just sweep them under the carpet too. you sir are a hypocrite as well. only 42% Support Health Care Reform After Release of Pelosi's Version
but that statistic
means nothing to you. im still wrong.
I've posted a lot of links too, but never a mention of them. Polls, well here's a link http://abcnews.go.com/PollingUnit/Politics/story?id=8373563, sure polls fluxuate but why wouldn't they, people are getting tired of this debate on healthcare, it's been going on way too long and the lies being brought out about it are surely not helping. I think that support will gain momentum as these bills get passed. There is just too much debate over it. And a lot of independants and progressives aren't happy that the democrats have given up too much so some of the drop in support is due to that. I personally think this bill should be voted down, then the democrats should bring the case to the American people that the republicans have done everything they can to lie and stop any reform. Then come back with more real democrats who really want to make things work with a single payer bill or extend medicare. Though that won't happen.
Jews have nothing to do with this.....except the monetary side/profits. LoL------The tangled webs that are weaved.
Don't forget about the love of the right wing and their uses of the holocaust and hitler when talking about giving people health care. Or the posters of the "teabaggers" with mounds of dead concentration victims... Makes me sick actually.
Pheebs. I can't believe you are still banging your head against the wall in this thread. There have been others who after months of frustrations have just left the forums altogether. Don't let that happen with you Pheebs.
Now, I hope NOT to start something here with this statement but...
Pheebs, Kuzi is a nice guy, with lot's of cigar knowledge. However, he is also someone who refuses to be wrong, or to (as he see's it) lose an arguement or debate.
Your valid points will be brushed aside, or ignored completely and new points which favor his views will be constantly inserted.
I gave up trying to convince Kuzi (and Puro too) that thier views were not the only views out there, or even that thier views were NOT in step with millions of other Americans.
There are people out there who would argue about something even after it has been totally proven to be wrong. (The Israeli's come to mind) Kuzi and Puro fall into this category. It is very hard to pin down a moving target. (IMO)
I just don't want to see more GOOD members leave the forums over political debate that goes nowhere. I think after a while winning the debate becomes much more important to some people then the information being passed back and forth. Too bad, because with these types of blinders on, true debate only suffers.
If you are only willing to grace the world with your knowledge, while refusing that others knowledge is as useful, and necessary as your own... then you are not debateing. You are just waiting for the other person to stop talking their trash so that you can get back to educating the masses.
Let's get back to talking about cigars. Not one thing said in this forum is going to change a damned thing in the real world, unfortunatley.
Laker, I will toast to every d@mn thing you just said. Pheebs and I both get emotional on issues (and I know you do do---including on my end, my little fit I had with you awhile back), and get ready to leave this place because of the closed mindedness, inability to admit flaws in opinions, and overinflated sense of self opinion around here....but on cigars we all can enjoy a good conversation and common ground and thats at least something. Thanks for the cool temper from one of the guys on here that doesnt always have one.
Yup. sound advice.
funny, when you have an opinion you are always right. when i have an opinion i am always wrong. you claim i wont ever change my opinion... yet i doubt you will either. you bush aside my links, refuse to look at them in many cases even though they are true, and have been vetted, but somehow I am the one that is wrong. and what about the opinions of millions of americans that arent on your side? that agree with me and puro? you just sweep them under the carpet too. you sir are a hypocrite as well. only 42% Support Health Care Reform After Release of Pelosi's Version
but that statistic means nothing to you. im still wrong.
Ya know Kuz, it's funny to me that we are called "racists" yet anti semitic views run rampant throughout the left in this country and across the world... I guess by their line of thinking Hitler was just trying to defend the poor people in Palestine...
actually hitler is used by the republicans over and over again.
Pheebs. I can't believe you are still banging your head against the wall in this thread. There have been others who after months of frustrations have just left the forums altogether. Don't let that happen with you Pheebs.
Now, I hope NOT to start something here with this statement but...
Pheebs, Kuzi is a nice guy, with lot's of cigar knowledge. However, he is also someone who refuses to be wrong, or to (as he see's it) lose an arguement or debate.
Your valid points will be brushed aside, or ignored completely and new points which favor his views will be constantly inserted.
I gave up trying to convince Kuzi (and Puro too) that thier views were not the only views out there, or even that thier views were NOT in step with millions of other Americans.
There are people out there who would argue about something even after it has been totally proven to be wrong. (The Israeli's come to mind) Kuzi and Puro fall into this category. It is very hard to pin down a moving target. (IMO)
I just don't want to see more GOOD members leave the forums over political debate that goes nowhere. I think after a while winning the debate becomes much more important to some people then the information being passed back and forth. Too bad, because with these types of blinders on, true debate only suffers.
If you are only willing to grace the world with your knowledge, while refusing that others knowledge is as useful, and necessary as your own... then you are not debateing. You are just waiting for the other person to stop talking their trash so that you can get back to educating the masses.
Let's get back to talking about cigars. Not one thing said in this forum is going to change a damned thing in the real world, unfortunatley.
Laker, I will toast to every d@mn thing you just said. Pheebs and I both get emotional on issues (and I know you do do---including on my end, my little fit I had with you awhile back), and get ready to leave this place because of the closed mindedness, inability to admit flaws in opinions, and overinflated sense of self opinion around here....but on cigars we all can enjoy a good conversation and common ground and thats at least something. Thanks for the cool temper from one of the guys on here that doesnt always have one.
Yup. sound advice.
funny, when you have an opinion you are always right. when i have an opinion i am always wrong. you claim i wont ever change my opinion... yet i doubt you will either. you bush aside my links, refuse to look at them in many cases even though they are true, and have been vetted, but somehow I am the one that is wrong. and what about the opinions of millions of americans that arent on your side? that agree with me and puro? you just sweep them under the carpet too. you sir are a hypocrite as well. only 42% Support Health Care Reform After Release of Pelosi's Version
but that statistic means nothing to you. im still wrong.
Ya know Kuz, it's funny to me that we are called "racists" yet anti semitic views run rampant throughout the left in this country and across the world... I guess by their line of thinking Hitler was just trying to defend the poor people in Palestine...
actually hitler is used by the republicans over and over again.
Well if it looks like a fish, and swims like a fish, and smells like a fish...
Pheebs. I can't believe you are still banging your head against the wall in this thread. There have been others who after months of frustrations have just left the forums altogether. Don't let that happen with you Pheebs.
Now, I hope NOT to start something here with this statement but...
Pheebs, Kuzi is a nice guy, with lot's of cigar knowledge. However, he is also someone who refuses to be wrong, or to (as he see's it) lose an arguement or debate.
Your valid points will be brushed aside, or ignored completely and new points which favor his views will be constantly inserted.
I gave up trying to convince Kuzi (and Puro too) that thier views were not the only views out there, or even that thier views were NOT in step with millions of other Americans.
There are people out there who would argue about something even after it has been totally proven to be wrong. (The Israeli's come to mind) Kuzi and Puro fall into this category. It is very hard to pin down a moving target. (IMO)
I just don't want to see more GOOD members leave the forums over political debate that goes nowhere. I think after a while winning the debate becomes much more important to some people then the information being passed back and forth. Too bad, because with these types of blinders on, true debate only suffers.
If you are only willing to grace the world with your knowledge, while refusing that others knowledge is as useful, and necessary as your own... then you are not debateing. You are just waiting for the other person to stop talking their trash so that you can get back to educating the masses.
Let's get back to talking about cigars. Not one thing said in this forum is going to change a damned thing in the real world, unfortunatley.
Laker, I will toast to every d@mn thing you just said. Pheebs and I both get emotional on issues (and I know you do do---including on my end, my little fit I had with you awhile back), and get ready to leave this place because of the closed mindedness, inability to admit flaws in opinions, and overinflated sense of self opinion around here....but on cigars we all can enjoy a good conversation and common ground and thats at least something. Thanks for the cool temper from one of the guys on here that doesnt always have one.
Yup. sound advice.
funny, when you have an opinion you are always right. when i have an opinion i am always wrong. you claim i wont ever change my opinion... yet i doubt you will either. you bush aside my links, refuse to look at them in many cases even though they are true, and have been vetted, but somehow I am the one that is wrong. and what about the opinions of millions of americans that arent on your side? that agree with me and puro? you just sweep them under the carpet too. you sir are a hypocrite as well. only 42% Support Health Care Reform After Release of Pelosi's Version
but that statistic means nothing to you. im still wrong.
Ya know Kuz, it's funny to me that we are called "racists" yet anti semitic views run rampant throughout the left in this country and across the world... I guess by their line of thinking Hitler was just trying to defend the poor people in Palestine...
actually hitler is used by the republicans over and over again.
Well if it looks like a fish, and swims like a fish, and smells like a fish...
i dont like to compare Obama to hitler. there are things that are a bit fascist in the Obama administration, but as far as i can tell, he is not looking to exterminate any race. he is not looking to take over north america by means of a large war. i dont like the comparison at all. I dont like obamas policy, but comparing him to hitler is a bit much.
i honestly think that Obama thinks that government can fix everything and he is so passionate about it that he is willing to violate rights to get government to fix it all.
i dont like to compare Obama to hitler. there are things that are a bit fascist in the Obama administration, but as far as i can tell, he is not looking to exterminate any race. he is not looking to take over north america by means of a large war. i dont like the comparison at all. I dont like obamas policy, but comparing him to hitler is a bit much.
i honestly think that Obama thinks that government can fix everything and he is so passionate about it that he is willing to violate rights to get government to fix it all.
I wasn't comparing Obama to Hitler, just the attitude of the left against Israel and the Jews in general.
i honestly think that Obama thinks that government can fix everything and he is so passionate about it that he is willing to violate rights to get government to fix it all.
I think this statement is very true ...I think he does passionatly believe that he's doing the right thing ...I don't think he has set out to destroy America although if enough of his proposals are passed the America we see now will be gone ...
Well the House version of this unconstitutional bill passed, but I don't see it making it through the Senate. There are way too many moderate Democrats who have already said the House Bill is way too out there. Thats what you get for putting a bill out based on what Nance Pelosi wanted... She has to be the most far left fringe person in all of Congress. Some of the reform ideas in this package may fly, but the government run health plan will sink this Bill. Sen. Joe Lieberman, who the Democrats need to pass the Bill, said "If a government plan is part of the deal, as a matter of conscience, I will not allow this bill to come to a final vote."
I am glad to see that some members of Congress, regardless of party, know that this plan is wrong and violates the rights of the American people.
I was listning to Sue Myrick (NC_09) on the way into work this morning ...you would not believe the crap thats in this thing ! According to her the Senate also said this thing will be dead when it arrives there. Even a provision about Bio fuel now that has alot to do with health care right? Also interesting she said a bill on defense spending also included a provision to raise the amount of monet the Govt could borrow I believe to between 12-14 Trillion dollars. She said they knew it was bad and not enough votes to keep it so they attached it to defense spending so anyone that voted against it could be accused of not supporting the troops !!! After listning to her I felt sicker about the country than I normally do.
A fine example of how the government run health option will be cutting costs if passed. This is the biggest load of crap I've ever heard. The Obama administration comes in and studies this for a few months then over-rides the American Cancer Society that has been doing this for years... Yea, these are the people I want running my health care.
A fine example of how the government run health option will be cutting costs if passed. This is the biggest load of crap I've ever heard. The Obama administration comes in and studies this for a few months then over-rides the American Cancer Society that has been doing this for years... Yea, these are the people I want running my health care.
i saw this story earlier today. it was linked elsewhere and the person said that this was the first of many "cost cutting maneuvers" that are inevitable under socialized health care. im not sure im ready to make that leap, but i do feel that the ACS is a bit more informed on this one than just about anyone.
Now why would these scientists have any reason to lie... It couldn't be to protect their funding could it??? I'm interested to hear more about this story as it develops.
Now why would these scientists have any reason to lie... It couldn't be to protect their funding could it??? I'm interested to hear more about this story as it develops.
Now why would these scientists have any reason to lie... It couldn't be to protect their funding could it??? I'm interested to hear more about this story as it develops.
What a simplistic view you have on this matter Puro. Let's say you are right that these scientist' are only saying these things to protect their jobs... WHY? Do you think that science stops after the climate debate is concluded? These scientist' who's integrity you are calling into question will just move on to another scientific problem. It isn't like there is a shortage of things for them to work on.
Given your arguement Puro, I guess we can conclude that if the place where you are a Police Officer, were to experience a month with no crime, then you and your fellow officers would be out in the community that you are charged to protect, doing crimes because you would be expected to look after yur own interests. This is the same arguement that you are making in regard to the Climate Scientists that you don't agree with. You are questioning their morals,and integrity and want us to believe that people in their position would do what they need to do to protect their incomes.
So please explain to me what would be different in the case of the police and the abscence of crime. Would you guys then become the criminal element that you are supposed to be working to get rid of? Are we to question all the stats that tell us about crime rates that the police use to get policy changes and to fund their programs, because they are just looking after their own interests?
Your accusations are VERY irresponsible Puro, you are disparaging a whole field of study, to try and make sense of your own personal views.
First of all your analogy using a police dept. is absurd. Police Depts don't get funded based on the amount of crime. For a Climatologist, if there becomes doubt that global warming exists or doubt that it is man made their funding would be cut. If they aren't getting funding from climate change then there isn't a lot for a Climatologist to study is there?
Also if you would calm down and read my post I never said they ARE lying. I just said I'm interested to see how this unfolds. If you want to dismiss anyone else's views without all the facts thats fine, but I'd rather wait and see what happens...
First of all your analogy using a police dept. is absurd. Police Depts don't get funded based on the amount of crime. For a Climatologist, if there becomes doubt that global warming exists or doubt that it is man made their funding would be cut. If they aren't getting funding from climate change then there isn't a lot for a Climatologist to study is there?
Also if you would calm down and read my post I never said they ARE lying. I just said I'm interested to see how this unfolds. If you want to dismiss anyone else's views without all the facts thats fine, but I'd rather wait and see what happens...
Now why would these scientists have any reason to lie... It couldn't be to protect their funding could it??? I'm interested to hear more about this story as it develops.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jason
That is exactly what you said.
As for my arguement being absurd... I expected NO LESS from you. Thanks Puro.
First of all your analogy using a police dept. is absurd. Police Depts don't get funded based on the amount of crime. For a Climatologist, if there becomes doubt that global warming exists or doubt that it is man made their funding would be cut. If they aren't getting funding from climate change then there isn't a lot for a Climatologist to study is there?
Also if you would calm down and read my post I never said they ARE lying. I just said I'm interested to see how this unfolds. If you want to dismiss anyone else's views without all the facts thats fine, but I'd rather wait and see what happens...
Now why would these scientists have any reason to lie... It couldn't be to protect their funding could it??? I'm interested to hear more about this story as it develops.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jason
That is exactly what you said.
As for my arguement being absurd... I expected NO LESS from you. Thanks Puro.
Expect no less? No less than what? To point out an inacurate statement? It wasn't anything personal Laker, just pointing out that Police agencies here aren't funded based on the amount of crime.
It's sad you can call my views on the world simplistic then when you make a totally false statement and I call you on it you get all pissed off. There is no need to take this so personal just because someone has a different view than you. Does it make you that angry because we disagree? You attacked me personally and my views, and say something that is untrue in the process, but somehow you see me as the bad guy?
First of all your analogy using a police dept. is absurd. Police Depts don't get funded based on the amount of crime. For a Climatologist, if there becomes doubt that global warming exists or doubt that it is man made their funding would be cut. If they aren't getting funding from climate change then there isn't a lot for a Climatologist to study is there?
Also if you would calm down and read my post I never said they ARE lying. I just said I'm interested to see how this unfolds. If you want to dismiss anyone else's views without all the facts thats fine, but I'd rather wait and see what happens...
Now why would these scientists have any reason to lie... It couldn't be to protect their funding could it??? I'm interested to hear more about this story as it develops.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jason
That is exactly what you said.
As for my arguement being absurd... I expected NO LESS from you. Thanks Puro.
Expect no less? No less than what? To point out an inacurate statement? It wasn't anything personal Laker, just pointing out that Police agencies here aren't funded based on the amount of crime.
It's sad you can call my views on the world simplistic then when you make a totally false statement and I call you on it you get all pissed off. There is no need to take this so personal just because someone has a different view than you. Does it make you that angry because we disagree? You attacked me personally and my views, and say something that is untrue in the process, but somehow you see me as the bad guy?
I naver attacked you personally Puro. I said your view on this subject was simplistic. I never said a word about you personally. That is what I was talking about. When someone says something YOU don't agree with you label it as lies, extreme, absurd etc. When you say something that I disagree with then you tell me not to get pissed off, calm down etc. I am NOT pissed, I don't need to calm down, but nice try Puro. Your little methods of NOT discussing an issue by turning the debate into something different entirely is NOT as cleaver as you may think. Did you learn that in first year psychology ?
When you say my views are simplistic, that is an insult to my intelligence. What I said was absurd was your analogy about Police and Climatologists. It was just untrue and did not apply. That is not how police departments are funded. I never said they DID lie, what I asked was what reason would they have to lie. My entire post was that it was an interesting story and it was relevant to the debates we have had here before about climate change. As I said in my first post, I think it will be interesting to see how the story developes. I wasn't trying to debate or argue, all I said is it was an interesting story. It may turn out to be nothing at all to it, or it could be a bomb shell... which ever it turns out to be is interesting.
When you say my views are simplistic, that is an insult to my intelligence. What I said was absurd was your analogy about Police and Climatologists. It was just untrue and did not apply. That is not how police departments are funded. I never said they DID lie, what I asked was what reason would they have to lie. My entire post was that it was an interesting story and it was relevant to the debates we have had here before about climate change. As I said in my first post, I think it will be interesting to see how the story developes. I wasn't trying to debate or argue, all I said is it was an interesting story. It may turn out to be nothing at all to it, or it could be a bomb shell... which ever it turns out to be is interesting.
See my response in the No regulations needed thread. It applies here as well.
Although I cannot say definitively, as I have not done all the research, I would make the initial observation that part of this may be due to the many republicans known for taking a "stance" on non accepting any "hand out money" like this as the reason. I think the real stpry here may be the closed minded politicans not willing to accept money desparetly needed for the people they serve. Or perhaps the unfortunate and oft-uneducated people in these districts who think a vote for a Republican is a vote for god and freedom and a vote for a democrat is a vote for killing babies and helping negroes.
Additionally, have we thought that many disctricts getting large amounts of money are also largely democratic (ie: Chicago, LA, Detroit) and take a disproportionate amount of money due to their disproportionately large size.
Comments
http://www.bradblog.com/?p=7487
i dont like to compare Obama to hitler. there are things that are a bit fascist in the Obama administration, but as far as i can tell, he is not looking to exterminate any race. he is not looking to take over north america by means of a large war. i dont like the comparison at all. I dont like obamas policy, but comparing him to hitler is a bit much.
i honestly think that Obama thinks that government can fix everything and he is so passionate about it that he is willing to violate rights to get government to fix it all.
I think this statement is very true ...I think he does passionatly believe that he's doing the right thing ...I don't think he has set out to destroy America although if enough of his proposals are passed the America we see now will be gone ...
I am glad to see that some members of Congress, regardless of party, know that this plan is wrong and violates the rights of the American people.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33973665/ns/health-womens_health/?GT1=43001
im not sure im ready to make that leap, but i do feel that the ACS is a bit more informed on this one than just about anyone.
Now why would these scientists have any reason to lie... It couldn't be to protect their funding could it??? I'm interested to hear more about this story as it develops.
Let's say you are right that these scientist' are only saying these things to protect their jobs... WHY? Do you think that science stops after the climate debate is concluded? These scientist' who's integrity you are calling into question will just move on to another scientific problem. It isn't like there is a shortage of things for them to work on.
Given your arguement Puro, I guess we can conclude that if the place where you are a Police Officer, were to experience a month with no crime, then you and your fellow officers would be out in the community that you are charged to protect, doing crimes because you would be expected to look after yur own interests. This is the same arguement that you are making in regard to the Climate Scientists that you don't agree with. You are questioning their morals,and integrity and want us to believe that people in their position would do what they need to do to protect their incomes.
So please explain to me what would be different in the case of the police and the abscence of crime. Would you guys then become the criminal element that you are supposed to be working to get rid of? Are we to question all the stats that tell us about crime rates that the police use to get policy changes and to fund their programs, because they are just looking after their own interests?
Your accusations are VERY irresponsible Puro, you are disparaging a whole field of study, to try and make sense of your own personal views.
Also if you would calm down and read my post I never said they ARE lying. I just said I'm interested to see how this unfolds. If you want to dismiss anyone else's views without all the facts thats fine, but I'd rather wait and see what happens...
Now why would these scientists have any reason to lie... It couldn't be to protect their funding could it??? I'm interested to hear more about this story as it develops. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jason
That is exactly what you said.
As for my arguement being absurd... I expected NO LESS from you. Thanks Puro.
It's sad you can call my views on the world simplistic then when you make a totally false statement and I call you on it you get all pissed off. There is no need to take this so personal just because someone has a different view than you. Does it make you that angry because we disagree? You attacked me personally and my views, and say something that is untrue in the process, but somehow you see me as the bad guy?