I agree. My dad retired from GM, and always loved the UAW. I think they definitely outlived their usefulness. Don't tell him I said that. He's still mad cause I voted for a Republican.
I am a union member and let me tell you how greedy and worthless they are. Back in the day they might have been a good thing but we don't need them anymore. The only thing my union is good for is collecting my union dues every month.
And most people don't realize this, but the only dues they are required to pay to the unions are the amount required to cover the costs of colective bargaining. The unions however are banking on this and typically charge much more than is required. They want nothing but more power and more control...
Ah yes! The IAMAW, another on the list of top 20 political contributors for the last decade and exactly 0% of their donations went to Republican candidates. One good deed does not mean the entire union is run properly. They also supported the Employee Free Choice Act aka (card check) which is a very shady and dishonest business practice to get unions into non-union facilities without a secret ballot election from the workers. Also part of this act was for the govermnent to step in to settle disputes between unions and businesses if they were not settled within 90 days. This is insane! If a union and a company can't settle on a contract, the government can just step in and impose whatever salary they want... And who would have guessed that many people in our current administration are heads of a major union. 3 companies that have resisted unions, Starbucks, Whole Foods, and Costco tried to propose a compromise that would have left most of the EFCA intact if the 2 points mentioned above were removed, and the unions refused to compromise. That is pure greed and hunger for power. Jimmy Hoffa could have learned a thing or two from the corupt unions leaders of today...
Yeah suspect!!!! Back to the coal mines for you without the mask,lol. Squirrel, Laker, and the rest of us here who are not skewed or mentally ill have an idea-----give up, you cant fix stupid.
Yeah suspect!!!! Back to the coal mines for you without the mask,lol. Squirrel, Laker, and the rest of us here who are not skewed or mentally ill have an idea-----give up, you cant fix stupid.
Seriously? Grow the f*uck up. You have got to be the most offensive and disruptive person on the forum. There were a few of us a while back seriously wondering if you were the same person as JWB and I'm starting to think he is a better person than you. Seriously there is no need for you to come on and personally attack people in a discussion that had nothing to fucking do with you.
Not trying to fix anything. Puro expressed the reasons why he didn't like unions (which is a fairly popular opinion) and I expressed why I like mine. IMHO, I personally think my opinion of the union that I'm in and deal with on a daily basis counts a little more than his opinion of my union since I have a first hand opinion and his is based on things he read. My attempt is not to persuade Puro, but to present my counter argument to his targeted audience that NOT ALL unions are these evil empires set out to ruin american capitalism. To expand upon this, most unions are actually set up as a pure democracy (which sometimes act like a republic) and they are absolutely nothing short of what the people, the workers who comprise the union want it to be. At least in the IAM, EVERYTHING is brought to a vote and majority wins. There is nothing that cannot be changed by taking the correct avenues. I believe that a lot of people out there, including a lot of people who I work with and are in my union, who think that the "union" is some board of directors or some organization in some other state, somewhere, that takes monthly money from them and offers little in return. The fact of the matter is that the "union" is the people! While we do have executive boards and presidents and committee members, the have 0 authority without the consent of the people through majority vote of the members, or majority vote of delegates (representatives voted for by the members of each local lodge) at the grand lodge convention. Paying dues does not purchase a team of individuals to take care of your every problem. Paying dues allows you to participate. Nothing can be done without first obtaining concent through majority by the body of the union. This means a meeting must held, a quorum assembled, a motion, a second, and a vote. The problem with a lot of unions out there is that the membership does not understand this concept, they don't get involved, motions are made at meetings and passed because they didn't bother to show up and vote the motion down and later they claim immunity from blame, that they are in some way not responsible. But evil prevails when good men do nothing.
Very well put Suspect, I am not trying to "fix" you either, we just disagree. I see how you would like your union since they help you. My view is that the things they do nationally to control the political powers do far more harm for the nation as a whole, than they do good for a small handfull of people. Nothing personal against you, just different views.
Yea, I wasn't real clear about the healthcare deal. One of the proposed methods of paying for the monsterous healthcare bill being pushed by President Obama and the rest on the left, is to tax peoples health insurance plans if they have a very good and expensive healthcare plan. This pissed off the unions because many of them negotiated these types of plans into the contracts for their members. So they decided to cash in a favor for helping get the big O and his buddies elected, and after some back room meetings the Dems came out and said "Any union members with these types of health care plans are exempt from being taxed on them like the rest of th country." That is what I was speaking of. Not health plans provided by the unions. Hope that cleared it up a little.
Well, why not? We're pretty much already paying (union dues) to help make sure that tons of americans have affordable healthcare plans. Why should we pay for this twice? Not saying I agree with the healthcare bill or the section you're referring to. I have my own issues with it the same way you do. But if it's going to happen, and this section is in it, I wouldn't say that it's unfair. "Unfair," meaning in context to the rest of the healthcare bill. Do you get what I'm saying???? Maybe I'll try to word this better later on.
Well, why not? We're pretty much already paying (union dues) to help make sure that tons of americans have affordable healthcare plans. Why should we pay for this twice? Not saying I agree with the healthcare bill or the section you're referring to. I have my own issues with it the same way you do. But if it's going to happen, and this section is in it, I wouldn't say that it's unfair. "Unfair," meaning in context to the rest of the healthcare bill. Do you get what I'm saying???? Maybe I'll try to word this better later on.
If you pay union dues to be contributed to political campaigns that is 100% voluntary. That should not exclude you from having to fott the bill with everyone else. That is corupt cronyism at it's finest. Thats like saying everyone who donated money to the Obama campaign shouldn't have to pay for the stimulus bill, or anyone who donated to George W. Bush's campaign shouldn't have had to pay for the war in Iraq or any of a number of stupid things he put money into. I am with you though, I have MAJOR issues with the healthcare bill, but the fact that unions are exempt from paying for it just proves their agenda to grab power straight from the top.
Well, why not? We're pretty much already paying (union dues) to help make sure that tons of americans have affordable healthcare plans. Why should we pay for this twice? Not saying I agree with the healthcare bill or the section you're referring to. I have my own issues with it the same way you do. But if it's going to happen, and this section is in it, I wouldn't say that it's unfair. "Unfair," meaning in context to the rest of the healthcare bill. Do you get what I'm saying???? Maybe I'll try to word this better later on.
If you pay union dues to be contributed to political campaigns that is 100% voluntary. That should not exclude you from having to fott the bill with everyone else. That is corupt cronyism at it's finest. Thats like saying everyone who donated money to the Obama campaign shouldn't have to pay for the stimulus bill, or anyone who donated to George W. Bush's campaign shouldn't have had to pay for the war in Iraq or any of a number of stupid things he put money into. I am with you though, I have MAJOR issues with the healthcare bill, but the fact that unions are exempt from paying for it just proves their agenda to grab power straight from the top.
I think you misunderstood me. Or I probably just didn't say it right. I wasn't talking about union dues going toward political campaigns, I was talking about union dues that pay for the months and months of negotiations with companies on collective bargaining agreements that lead to american workers and their families getting quality healthcare. Each member is already paying to obtain a quality healthcare package. Why should they have to pay twice?
Well, why not? We're pretty much already paying (union dues) to help make sure that tons of americans have affordable healthcare plans. Why should we pay for this twice? Not saying I agree with the healthcare bill or the section you're referring to. I have my own issues with it the same way you do. But if it's going to happen, and this section is in it, I wouldn't say that it's unfair. "Unfair," meaning in context to the rest of the healthcare bill. Do you get what I'm saying???? Maybe I'll try to word this better later on.
If you pay union dues to be contributed to political campaigns that is 100% voluntary. That should not exclude you from having to fott the bill with everyone else. That is corupt cronyism at it's finest. Thats like saying everyone who donated money to the Obama campaign shouldn't have to pay for the stimulus bill, or anyone who donated to George W. Bush's campaign shouldn't have had to pay for the war in Iraq or any of a number of stupid things he put money into. I am with you though, I have MAJOR issues with the healthcare bill, but the fact that unions are exempt from paying for it just proves their agenda to grab power straight from the top.
I think you misunderstood me. Or I probably just didn't say it right. I wasn't talking about union dues going toward political campaigns, I was talking about union dues that pay for the months and months of negotiations with companies on collective bargaining agreements that lead to american workers and their families getting quality healthcare. Each member is already paying to obtain a quality healthcare package. Why should they have to pay twice?
Because you are doing that on a voluntary basis. If everything you said about your union is true, then you voted for them to fight for your insurance plan and you voted them to even be a part of your job. That doesn't entitle you to any special treatment. Just like a football player who has an agent that negotiates for him. He pays the agent, yet he would still be taxed on health plans too. Just because someone is a union member doesn't make him special.
Yeah suspect!!!! Back to the coal mines for you without the mask,lol. Squirrel, Laker, and the rest of us here who are not skewed or mentally ill have an idea-----give up, you cant fix stupid.
Seriously? Grow the f*uck up. You have got to be the most offensive and disruptive person on the forum. There were a few of us a while back seriously wondering if you were the same person as JWB and I'm starting to think he is a better person than you. Seriously there is no need for you to come on and personally attack people in a discussion that had nothing to fucking do with you.
Seconded. You just had the balls to say it so I applaud you sir.
Yeah suspect!!!! Back to the coal mines for you without the mask,lol. Squirrel, Laker, and the rest of us here who are not skewed or mentally ill have an idea-----give up, you cant fix stupid.
Seriously? Grow the f*uck up. You have got to be the most offensive and disruptive person on the forum. There were a few of us a while back seriously wondering if you were the same person as JWB and I'm starting to think he is a better person than you. Seriously there is no need for you to come on and personally attack people in a discussion that had nothing to fucking do with you.
Seconded. You just had the balls to say it so I applaud you sir.
I probably shouldn't have had an outburst like that, but I have discussed with a few people on here how sick we are of his toxic attitude and low life cold hearted attacks on people who aren't as "enlightened" as he is. To call someone mentally ill or stupid because they don't agree with you or don't mind having an actual discussion with someone of opposing views is above most internet forum prowling teenage rejects even... I'm sure nothing will change and it will continue as always, but I had to toss out my two pissed off cents.
Yeah suspect!!!! Back to the coal mines for you without the mask,lol. Squirrel, Laker, and the rest of us here who are not skewed or mentally ill have an idea-----give up, you cant fix stupid.
Seriously? Grow the f*uck up. You have got to be the most offensive and disruptive person on the forum. There were a few of us a while back seriously wondering if you were the same person as JWB and I'm starting to think he is a better person than you. Seriously there is no need for you to come on and personally attack people in a discussion that had nothing to fucking do with you.
Seconded. You just had the balls to say it so I applaud you sir.
I probably shouldn't have had an outburst like that, but I have discussed with a few people on here how sick we are of his toxic attitude and low life cold hearted attacks on people who aren't as "enlightened" as he is. To call someone mentally ill or stupid because they don't agree with you or don't mind having an actual discussion with someone of opposing views is above most internet forum prowling teenage rejects even... I'm sure nothing will change and it will continue as always, but I had to toss out my two pissed off cents.
it took everything i could not to have an EXTREME outburst when i saw his Vulchor's Nest posts or whatever seeing as my nephew has asperger's. some people just dont know where to draw the line.
Sheriff Puro...I am not JWB, but thanks for talking about me...Im honored. And please refrain from such foul language and personal attacks. I was reciting a comedy routine, not attacking you personally----please try and do the same. I'll drop out as you wish and allow the continued reinforcing of the beliefs of the generally like minded here to continue. True apologies to all I offended with my free speech.
Sheriff Puro...I am not JWB, but thanks for talking about me...Im honored. And please refrain from such foul language and personal attacks. I was reciting a comedy routine, not attacking you personally----please try and do the same. I'll drop out as you wish and allow the continued reinforcing of the beliefs of the generally like minded here to continue. True apologies to all I offended with my free speech.
First of all, I'm not the one who said you were the same, but it had crossed my mind many times. You can say you were reciting whatever, but you were talking about the people here and it's rude and uncalled for. Also how is a discussion between two people that don't agree on an issue "reinforcing of the beliefs?" You just don't like to see people have a civil discussion unless they both see things from your point of view. You continualy call views that are the same as yours the voice of reason and sanity. You are the most intollerant person I think I have ever encountered outside of a documentary on the KKK. Not saying you are racist or anything like that, just that you are as intollerant of others beliefs. I don't agree with Laker, or Phobic on most issues, and don't agree with suspect on the issue of unions, but I don't think they are mentally ill or insane. They just have different views. I still respect them as people and try to treat them with respect even if I don't believe in what they are saying. They do the same in even the most heated discussions on here, however you never do. I know I'm not the only one who has had issues with this, but I promise it will be the last I speak of the subject.
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