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Supreme Court fight looms over right to carry a gun

RainRain Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 8,761
Found this on yahoo.The next big issue in the national debate over guns — whether people have a right to be armed in public — is moving closer to Supreme Court review. A provocative ruling by a panel of federal appeals court judges in Chicago struck down the only statewide ban on carrying concealed weapons, in Illinois. The ruling is somewhat at odds with those of other federal courts that have largely upheld state and local gun laws, including restrictions on concealed weapons, since the Supreme Court's landmark ruling declaring that people have a right to have a gun for self-defense.. In, 2008, the court voted 5-4 in District of Columbia v. Heller to strike down Washington's ban on handgun ownership and focused mainly on the right to defend one's own home. The court left for another day how broadly the Second Amendment may protect gun rights in other settings.. Legal scholars say the competing appellate rulings mean that day is drawing near for a new high court case on gun rights.. The appeals court ruling in Chicago came early in a week that ended with the mass shooting in Connecticut that left 28 people dead, including 20 children at an elementary school and the presumed gunman.. Laurie Levenson, a professor at the Loyola Law School in Los Angeles, said that along with thorny legal issues, "we have the overlay of these tragedies hitting us on a somewhat regular basis.". The author of a book that traces the battle over gun control in the U.S. said he thinks Supreme Court intervention is likely in the short-term. "Since the Heller case, the next great question for the Supreme Court to decide was whether there is a right to carry guns in public," said UCLA law professor Adam Winkler, whose book "Gunfight" was published last year.. Roughly 40 states make it easy for people to carry a gun in public. But in California, New York and a few other states, local and state regulations make it difficult if not impossible to get a license to carry a weapon. Illinois and the District of Columbia have been the only places to refuse to allow people to be armed in public.. "In some of our most populated states, the right does not exist either because it's completely forbidden or practically forbidden," said Alan Gura, the lawyer who won the Heller case at the Supreme Court.. Gun rights advocates and gun control supporters are as split over the issue of having guns in public as they were over whether the Constitution protected gun ownership at all — and along the same lines.. Jonathan Lowy, an attorney with the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence, said, "If law enforcement makes a determination that somebody would increase the danger to the public by carrying a loaded gun on the streets, then that person should not be carrying a loaded gun. Some people in the gun lobby want to tie the hands of law enforcement.". But Wayne LaPierre, chief executive officer of the National Rifle Association, said, "Clearly, the individual right under the Constitution does not apply only to your home. People have lives outside their home and the constitutional right applies outside their home.". Sometimes, LaPierre said, "The only thing to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun.". Judge Richard Posner of the 7th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals employed similar reasoning in his majority opinion striking down the Illinois law. Posner said that threatening confrontations do not only or even principally occur at home. "A Chicagoan is a good deal more likely to be attacked on a sidewalk in a rough neighborhood than in his apartment on the 35th floor of the Park Tower," the judge said.. He homed in on the distinction between inside the home and on the street in his questioning of another recent appeals court ruling that upheld New York's restrictive law on granting people permits to carry concealed weapons. A unanimous panel of the 2nd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals said the requirement that people demonstrate a special need to carry a concealed weapon does not violate the Constitution.. "Our principal reservation about the Second Circuit's analysis is its suggestion that the Second Amendment should have much greater scope inside the home than outside simply because other provisions of the Constitution have been held to make that distinction," including the right to privacy that underlies the high court ruling striking down sodomy laws. "Well of course, the interest in having sex inside one's home is much greater than the interest in having sex on the sidewalk in front of one's home. But the interest in self-protection is as great outside as inside the home," Posner said.. In dissent, Judge Ann Williams said governments have a strong interest in regulating guns on the street. "It is common sense, as the majority recognizes, that a gun is dangerous to more people when carried outside the home. When firearms are carried outside the home, the safety of a broader range of citizens is at issue. The risk of being injured or killed now extends to strangers, law enforcement personnel, and other private citizens who happen to be in the area," Williams said.. Gura represents the challengers to the New York law and he said he will ask the high court to review the 2nd Circuit ruling. Illinois Attorney General Lisa Madigan has not yet said whether the state will ask the full 7th Circuit court to reconsider its ruling or appeal to the Supreme Court.. So far, the Supreme Court has turned down appeals asking it to say more about guns. But that reluctance might fade if the court were presented with a split between appeals courts, typically a strong factor in attracting the justices' interest.. The Second Amendment talks about "the right to keep and bear arms and it's as if some courts want to take giant eraser to the words 'and bear' and pretend that they're not there," said David Thompson, managing partner of the Cooper and Kirk law firm in Washington. Thompson represented some plaintiffs in the Illinois case.. Northwestern University law professor Eugene Kontrovich said the difference between the New York and Chicago courts over what it means to bear arms could be enough to persuade the Supreme Court to intervene.. Winkler, the UCLA professor, said he thinks the Illinois statute would fall if it were to put to a test at the Supreme Court, probably by the same 5-4 vote as in Heller. But it is hard to predict how the Supreme Court might rule on restrictions that fall short of an outright ban on the right to carry a loaded weapon in public for self-defense, he said.. "Public possession is a different issue than having a gun in your home," Winkler said.http://news.yahoo.com/high-court-fight-looms-over-carry-gun-100107234.html
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Comments

  • The KidThe Kid Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 7,842
    Interesting, curious if you know what the penalty is for someone who can legally own a firarm carries a cocealed weapon in one of these cities/ states where it is illegal to conceal carry.
  • gmill880gmill880 Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 5,947
  • y2pascoey2pascoe Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 1,707
  • The KidThe Kid Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 7,842
  • RainRain Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 8,761
    I just don't see too many options. So the Government comes out and says nobody can own a gun. Does anyone think that criminals won't still have them? I don't understand how people get scared over law abiding citizens having weapons...you should be scared of criminals having them. Even if they outlaw guns, some will us a knife, sword, spear....it's not really about the weapon, because since mankind first appeared, they have always had a weapon.Now, this part is a personal opinion and is not rooted in fact. I can't imagine that people don't want to be responsible for their own safety. You're out getting gas one night, and three guys approach you armed. Whose first thought is "Man, the police will be here any second."? Take responsibility for your own safety. Don't do nothing and then blame the police. Remember, when seconds count, the police will be there in minutes.
  • y2pascoey2pascoe Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 1,707
    Rain:
    I just don't see too many options. So the Government comes out and says nobody can own a gun. Does anyone think that criminals won't still have them? I don't understand how people get scared over law abiding citizens having weapons...you should be scared of criminals having them.
    I hear what you're saying. The idea of a school principal needing to carry a weapon scares me because it presents the question, "What the f*ck has happened to our society?" How'd we get here? I worry enough about letting my kid out of my sight and having some pervert snatcher her up. Now I gotta worry about her making it through arithmetic without some dark soul shooting up her class? It's very unsettling and I pray for any parent that's wondering the same.
  • RainRain Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 8,761
    y2pascoe:
    Rain:
    I just don't see too many options. So the Government comes out and says nobody can own a gun. Does anyone think that criminals won't still have them? I don't understand how people get scared over law abiding citizens having weapons...you should be scared of criminals having them.
    I hear what you're saying. The idea of a school principal needing to carry a weapon scares me because it presents the question, "What the f*ck has happened to our society?" How'd we get here? I worry enough about letting my kid out of my sight and having some pervert snatcher her up. Now I gotta worry about her making it through arithmetic without some dark soul shooting up her class? It's very unsettling and I pray for any parent that's wondering the same.
    I agree with the idea of the principle needing a weapon is sad, but I would not let that get in the way of my kids safety. I can;'t comment on society, because I was not alive in the 60s/70s/80s, so this is all I really know =/ I'm talking to my wife about this stuff all the time, I have a 4 year old in Pre K.
  • The KidThe Kid Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 7,842
    Rain:
    y2pascoe:
    Rain:
    I just don't see too many options. So the Government comes out and says nobody can own a gun. Does anyone think that criminals won't still have them? I don't understand how people get scared over law abiding citizens having weapons...you should be scared of criminals having them.
    I hear what you're saying. The idea of a school principal needing to carry a weapon scares me because it presents the question, "What the f*ck has happened to our society?" How'd we get here? I worry enough about letting my kid out of my sight and having some pervert snatcher her up. Now I gotta worry about her making it through arithmetic without some dark soul shooting up her class? It's very unsettling and I pray for any parent that's wondering the same.
    I agree with the idea of the principle needing a weapon is sad, but I would not let that get in the way of my kids safety. I can;'t comment on society, because I was not alive in the 60s/70s/80s, so this is all I really know =/ I'm talking to my wife about this stuff all the time, I have a 4 year old in Pre K.
    I guess one good reason to Homeschool..
  • RainRain Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 8,761
    The Kid:
    Rain:
    y2pascoe:
    Rain:
    I just don't see too many options. So the Government comes out and says nobody can own a gun. Does anyone think that criminals won't still have them? I don't understand how people get scared over law abiding citizens having weapons...you should be scared of criminals having them.
    I hear what you're saying. The idea of a school principal needing to carry a weapon scares me because it presents the question, "What the f*ck has happened to our society?" How'd we get here? I worry enough about letting my kid out of my sight and having some pervert snatcher her up. Now I gotta worry about her making it through arithmetic without some dark soul shooting up her class? It's very unsettling and I pray for any parent that's wondering the same.
    I agree with the idea of the principle needing a weapon is sad, but I would not let that get in the way of my kids safety. I can;'t comment on society, because I was not alive in the 60s/70s/80s, so this is all I really know =/ I'm talking to my wife about this stuff all the time, I have a 4 year old in Pre K.
    I guess one good reason to Homeschool..
    I need some time! My goal is to be a History teacher.
  • The KidThe Kid Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 7,842
  • JDHJDH Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 2,107
    The Kid:
    Rain:
    y2pascoe:
    Rain:
    I just don't see too many options. So the Government comes out and says nobody can own a gun. Does anyone think that criminals won't still have them? I don't understand how people get scared over law abiding citizens having weapons...you should be scared of criminals having them.
    I hear what you're saying. The idea of a school principal needing to carry a weapon scares me because it presents the question, "What the f*ck has happened to our society?" How'd we get here? I worry enough about letting my kid out of my sight and having some pervert snatcher her up. Now I gotta worry about her making it through arithmetic without some dark soul shooting up her class? It's very unsettling and I pray for any parent that's wondering the same.
    I agree with the idea of the principle needing a weapon is sad, but I would not let that get in the way of my kids safety. I can;'t comment on society, because I was not alive in the 60s/70s/80s, so this is all I really know =/ I'm talking to my wife about this stuff all the time, I have a 4 year old in Pre K.
    I guess one good reason to Homeschool..
    The shooter was homeschooled, and his mother had stockpiled firearms.
  • The KidThe Kid Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 7,842
    JDH:
    The Kid:
    Rain:
    y2pascoe:
    Rain:
    I just don't see too many options. So the Government comes out and says nobody can own a gun. Does anyone think that criminals won't still have them? I don't understand how people get scared over law abiding citizens having weapons...you should be scared of criminals having them.
    I hear what you're saying. The idea of a school principal needing to carry a weapon scares me because it presents the question, "What the f*ck has happened to our society?" How'd we get here? I worry enough about letting my kid out of my sight and having some pervert snatcher her up. Now I gotta worry about her making it through arithmetic without some dark soul shooting up her class? It's very unsettling and I pray for any parent that's wondering the same.
    I agree with the idea of the principle needing a weapon is sad, but I would not let that get in the way of my kids safety. I can;'t comment on society, because I was not alive in the 60s/70s/80s, so this is all I really know =/ I'm talking to my wife about this stuff all the time, I have a 4 year old in Pre K.
    I guess one good reason to Homeschool..
    The shooter was homeschooled, and his mother had stockpiled firearms.
    was suggesting that homeschooling may be a viable option in protecting ones innocent and defenseless child from nutjobs who have a few screws loose.
  • gmill880gmill880 Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 5,947
  • webmostwebmost Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 3,131
  • RainRain Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 8,761
    Found this online, shows my hate for Bob and fits on this thread...perfect.Bob Costas will return to Sunday Night Football just one week after he called for gun control on Sunday Night Football. Ironically, there is another death in the NFL family this week. Joshua Price-Brent of the Dallas Cowboys was driving intoxicated and killed teammate Jerry Brown Jr. While Costas will make this a story line at half, Costas won’t continue down his road of illogical argument that inanimate objects kill people. In other words, you won’t hear Bob Costas call for a ban on booze and cars like he did guns last week and admit it is people who make bad decisions, not man-made objects that are incapable of thinking and moving on their own.
  • Amos UmwhatAmos Umwhat Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 2,523
  • JDHJDH Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 2,107
  • RainRain Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 8,761
    So...blame gun manufacturers, Hollywood and Washington? Typical American view.The purpose of the 2nd Ammendment was to keep citizens armed so that they could, if need be, topple their goverment. When it was written, civilians and military personel were armed with roughly the same weapons, minus cannons.
  • jthanatosjthanatos Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 1,563
  • The KidThe Kid Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 7,842
    Rain:
    So...blame gun manufacturers, Hollywood and Washington? Typical American view.The purpose of the 2nd Ammendment was to keep citizens armed so that they could, if need be, topple their goverment. When it was written, civilians and military personel were armed with roughly the same weapons, minus cannons.
    I tried explaining this to my Dad yesterday who is against civilians being able to own ak47's and the like. He then suggested that I would probably like to own a tank as well,, I was like oh hell yeah!!!! lol,,
  • JDHJDH Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 2,107
  • RainRain Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 8,761
    The Kid:
    Rain:
    So...blame gun manufacturers, Hollywood and Washington? Typical American view.The purpose of the 2nd Ammendment was to keep citizens armed so that they could, if need be, topple their goverment. When it was written, civilians and military personel were armed with roughly the same weapons, minus cannons.
    I tried explaining this to my Dad yesterday who is against civilians being able to own ak47's and the like. He then suggested that I would probably like to own a tank as well,, I was like oh hell yeah!!!! lol,,
    Tank??? Yes please.
  • KimemKimem Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 6
    Agree with jthanatos and his facts. Face it, politicians have and will continue to introduce guns laws that are meaningless and nonsensical because they want to appear as though they are 'solving' a problem. Many people will always believe guns are evil incarnate. Correct me if I am wrong, but the last time I looked murder, mayhem, assault were still illegal. Has that stopped the crimes? We all abhor people, especially children being hurt or killed, period. However, here is a blog that is an important facet of what is happening and barely getting coverage because it isn't as sensational, just painful. I know it is long just do me a favor and read it to the end. http://anarchistsoccermom.blogspot.com/2012/12/thinking-unthinkable.html
  • RainRain Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 8,761
    I'll check it out bro. 7 posts since 08? You must be one of those guys who when they speak, people listen.
  • jthanatosjthanatos Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 1,563
  • RainRain Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 8,761
    A gun-toting civilian saved lives by confronting a deranged man on a shooting spree at a Portland, Oregon shopping mall last week, confounding a progressive narrative calling for the banning of firearms. Nick Meli, 22, was at the Clackamas Town Center last Wednesday with a friend and her baby when a masked man opened fire. “I heard three shots and turned and looked at Casey and said, ‘are you serious?,’” Meli told local television news station KGW. After securing his friend and her baby, Meli, a former security guard at the mall, drew his gun and went to confront the man. When shooter Jacob Roberts stopped his assault to deal with a jammed gun, Meli came out and drew down on him. The two made eye contact. Shooter Jacob Roberts Meli, who has a Concealed Carry permit for his weapon, did not fire on Roberts after seeing someone behind the target. If he missed hitting Roberts, he could have hit the civilian in the background. Meli stands by that decision. “I’m not beating myself up cause I didn’t shoot him,” he explained. “I know after he saw me, I think the last shot he fired was the one he used on himself.” Roberts turned the gun on himself after seeing Meli, the only shot fired after being confronted. While two people were killed in the rampage, it could have been more had Meli not been there with his own weapon. The incident, although reported by local Oregon media, was not included in the narrative reported by national media outlets that covered the tragic incident.
  • Ken LightKen Light Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 3,524
  • JDHJDH Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 2,107
  • JDHJDH Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 2,107
  • RainRain Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 8,761
    How can you "demand" people change? Who are you talking about? Why is it lawful citizens who are taking blame for what criminals do? I own a gun, I did nothing wrong, and you want my gun? No, thanks.
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