Welcome to a new ear everyone! YES WE CAN TAX YOU TO DEATH!!!
I figured this would be a good thing to post on the first day of the SCHIP tax starting...
Get ready to see a LOT more of this in the future if the whole Universal Health Care thing happens. And we are going to be the ones footing the bill for it all!
First we bailed out the banks and the government is taking control of them, then the auto industry, next health care... You know things are getting out of hand when the President of FRANCE calls our Presidents policies too socialist!!!
First we bailed out the banks and the government is taking control of them, then the auto industry, next health care...
i bet oil will be next... after health care that is.
PuroFreak:
You know things are getting out of hand when the President of FRANCE calls our Presidents policies too socialist!!!
yeah. thats pretty messed up there.
My guess would be all the "green" energy source companies that use windmills and things like that will be after healthcare due to the price of oil coming down. Now more people are relying on the old resources again since the price dropped and it will hurt some of Obama's biggest supporters. They will be bailed out next... and the list goes on and on and on making everyone more dependant on the government.
Well it looks like the Prez and the rest of the Anti-Gun nuts are ramping up their efforts AGAIN! These people will go to any extremes they feel are needed to reach their goals even if that means lieing and falsifying figures to mislead our country... Oh wait... I thought it was the Bush Admintistration that did that...
We just heard a couple days ago that the 6-year-old daughter of a friend is going to die within the next month from cancer. She has been battling this since she was 2 years old. The parents will be left with memories, heartbreak, and $1M+ in debt after exhausting all their savings, including their retirement. Anybody who thinks healthcare reform in this country isn't needed can *** off.
We just heard a couple days ago that the 6-year-old daughter of a friend is going to die within the next month from cancer. She has been battling this since she was 2 years old. The parents will be left with memories, heartbreak, and $1M+ in debt after exhausting all their savings, including their retirement. Anybody who thinks healthcare reform in this country isn't needed can *** off.
Health care reform, YES, Government take over of the Healthcare system, NO.
Our healthcare industry could be fixed by the private sector if government would just get the hell out of the way.
Get ready to see a LOT more of this in the future if the whole Universal Health Care thing happens. And we are going to be the ones footing the bill for it all!
First we bailed out the banks and the government is taking control of them, then the auto industry, next health care... You know things are getting out of hand when the President of FRANCE calls our Presidents policies too socialist!!!
We just heard a couple days ago that the 6-year-old daughter of a friend is going to die within the next month from cancer. She has been battling this since she was 2 years old. The parents will be left with memories, heartbreak, and $1M+ in debt after exhausting all their savings, including their retirement. Anybody who thinks healthcare reform in this country isn't needed can *** off.
Health care reform, YES, Government take over of the Healthcare system, NO.
Our healthcare industry could be fixed by the private sector if government would just get the hell out of the way.
We've tried that. It's not working. Private insurance is a racket. Private healthcare, and particularly drugs, are out of control. I've covered this on the forum before, including where our country ranks with respect to access and cost for healthcare compared to other countries.
We just heard a couple days ago that the 6-year-old daughter of a friend is going to die within the next month from cancer. She has been battling this since she was 2 years old. The parents will be left with memories, heartbreak, and $1M+ in debt after exhausting all their savings, including their retirement. Anybody who thinks healthcare reform in this country isn't needed can *** off.
Ok, I don't see how Health Care reform is going to save that little girls life. If $1m+ worth of medical care couldn't do it, then a universal healthcare system isn't going to help. That is a VERY VERY sad thing and it tears me up as a parent to hear about that, but the fact remains that it wouldn't save lives like everyone tries to make it sound. It's easy to use emotion to try to motivate people for your cause, but it doesn't add up logically.
I never said that it would save her life. But it's disgusting that the parents have to sit on $1M of debt, and the mother had to give up her job years ago. They've spent the last 4 years in the hospital, and have received an incredible amount of support from several friends, including us. The pile of debt is the biggest kick in the pants when this is all said and done.
health care is a good or service. It is not a right.
taxing me... i mean, taking money by force from me to pay for someone else's goods and services is not what this country is all about. yes that does suck that the little girl died. that sucks bad. this is a prime example for charity. and dont tell me that people wont give. I have helped many kids in very similar situations by working for and raising money for St Jude. My wife and I take that to heart.
if you want to donate, i will gladly accept PMs to work it out.
Healthcare is a service that will be more accessible and affordable under public control, the way it works on all countries that have a better healthcare system than ours. Health insurance as it stands in our country today is borderline criminal extortion. Are you saying rich people with poor health deserve to live, while poor people (although, frankly, these people aren't poor) with poor health deserve to die?
If private insurance worked the way it is advertised by the opponents of public health care, this family would not have been saddled with that debt. The whole point of insurance is to cover exceptions/crises. However, the caps on a maximum annual benefit effectively place a limit on the value of a person's life. Once that threshold has been met, in the eyes of the insurer, that person is no longer worth preserving. I should never have jumped in here. It is too emotionally draining. The disgusting lack of basic respect for human welfare that runs rampant on this board is too much for me. I'm out.
"Are you saying rich people with poor health deserve to live, while poor people (although, frankly, these people aren't poor) with poor health deserve to die?"
That is what I was getting at right there! How would universal health care have saved that girls life? They were not insured, but they still got treatment. Those people in the news story I posted the link to didn't have insurance but guess what... They also still got treatment. Seriously now, the fear mongering about this issue amazes me...
I do not disagree with physicians NOT turning people away, regardless if they can pay or not. I disagree with government telling me my money has to pay for their treatment. Nothing in life is free, and that includes these people in the news story. I donate to causes in which I believe, always have, always will. I would not have a problem making a generous donation to child healthcare or other specific types, but I do not want to pay these (drug addict) individuals. Would you be ok with paying for the healthcare of those who lack the gumption to care for themselves, or who are too unaccountable? People who do not have a problem with these individuals taking tax payer money shouldn't have a problem donating to their medical bills. Private donations and fund raisers help thousands of other institutions so perhaps this is the way to go.
There is a couple that my wife and I know. They have a one-year old and a bun in the oven. They plan on getting married but are not going to do so until both children are get a little older because THEY (THE MOTHER) GET MORE MONEY FROM TAX PAYERS TO PAY THE BILLS WHILE SHE IS A SINGLE MOM. That's fucking bullshit.
I feel the same way about these drug addicts (and others who cannot grasp accountability) as I do with current dilemma with the Autos and Banks. They got themselves into this mess, they need to be accountable for their actions and take care of it themselves. My loved ones and I didn't bust our asses our entire lives to get ourselves out of an impoverished background for other limp dicks to unjustifiably/immorally/unconstitutionally/unethically take money from our pockets. Not. My. Problem.
Healthcare is a service that will be more accessible and affordable under public control, the way it works on all countries that have a better healthcare system than ours. Health insurance as it stands in our country today is borderline criminal extortion. Are you saying rich people with poor health deserve to live, while poor people (although, frankly, these people aren't poor) with poor health deserve to die?
If private insurance worked the way it is advertised by the opponents of public health care, this family would not have been saddled with that debt. The whole point of insurance is to cover exceptions/crises. However, the caps on a maximum annual benefit effectively place a limit on the value of a person's life. Once that threshold has been met, in the eyes of the insurer, that person is no longer worth preserving.
and what about the other end? in a social system, like those being proposed, even if you can afford it they asses if you are worth treating or not. an old man who is 70 and a smoker is a drain on the system. why should we treat him? he SMOKES!! he is driving the cost up for the rest of us!
...but he could afford it if he wanted to. where is the compassion in THAT?
Do we still really want to allow physicians to decide which drugs to prescribe without first getting permission from the "national health care coordinator"?
Are Americans willing to trust the government with all of their health care requirements? Should we rely on the government to make medical decisions and place our health entirely in the hands of politicians? Should we expect the government to place our needs ahead of powerful hospital groups or public employee unions? Surely we can rely on the government to insure that there are enough medical facilities in our own communities rather than in, say, the district of a powerful committee chairman? Can we expect the Federal Health Board to establish priorities based on the public interest and not their own agendas? Will some diseases become more politically correct than others?
Based on the currently unfunded but rapidly increasing costs of Medicare and Medicaid, shouldn't we trust the government to reduce all medical costs when it takes them over and none of us have anywhere else to go?
I just dont think social health care will work. here is why:
Consider the contrasting case of the computer industry, which is much freer than the healthcare industry. When the newest, most souped-up, most software-laden computer with the most comprehensive service contract first comes out, it might cost $20,000 or more. Only wealthy Americans choose to buy, or can afford to buy, such an expensive model. Most Americans settle for a model and service contract that costs maybe $1,000 or less. But a couple of years later, after manufacturers have improved their manufacturing ability and brought their costs down, they can sell the old souped-up model for $1,000; and then the average man can enjoy what only the wealthiest could afford a couple of years earlier. Meanwhile, the wealthy can now buy an even more amazing new computer for $20,000.
This has been the pattern of all technological progress in all industries throughout the Industrial Revolution. A poor immigrant today making less than minimum wage off the books can afford to pay for a life-saving antibiotic that the richest of the rich could not obtain a few generations ago.
But suppose the government declares that owning a computer is a right, and so every American has the right to a quality computer, the best computer available. Then progress becomes an enemy of the state. Every new, $20,000 computer has to be provided to everyone. And so, instead of the average computer cost per person being around $1,000, the average cost is $20,000.
The government's only recourse is to outlaw progress.
Moreover, some people who had no computer before are now entitled to one. And they need more service, because they keep spilling booze on it. And those who had two computers must do with only one, with less service. And soon the computer models become more stripped down, because that’s the only way to pay for an equal computer for all.
Freedom is and always will be a matter of survival. If this is news to anyone, they should take a look at countries whose farms are owned by the state.
dutyje:
The disgusting lack of basic respect for human welfare that runs rampant on this board is too much for me. I'm out.
I dont respect life?!?!?
what about the lack of respect for the things that I worked hard for? MY life? who is respecting ME? you arent. you want to take from me things that i have worked hard for and sacrificed for. that is not respect. that is immoral.
you are stepping all over the rights of the individual because it feels good to help out. If it feels good to help out then do it. but dont FORCE everyone else to do things that they would not normally do.
like I said before, I give to charity already. St. Jude, Big brothers and big sisters, and i have been known to give up my time to go rehab old houses for low income housing. If anyone wants to donate, please PM me and i will make it happen.
...but i will never force you to donate. ill just be happy if you do.
"Are you saying rich people with poor health deserve to live, while poor people (although, frankly, these people aren't poor) with poor health deserve to die?"
That is what I was getting at right there! How would universal health care have saved that girls life? They were not insured, but they still got treatment. Those people in the news story I posted the link to didn't have insurance but guess what... They also still got treatment. Seriously now, the fear mongering about this issue amazes me...
they were insured... and they make more than our family .... that's my whole FUCKING point
"Are you saying rich people with poor health deserve to live, while poor people (although, frankly, these people aren't poor) with poor health deserve to die?"
That is what I was getting at right there! How would universal health care have saved that girls life? They were not insured, but they still got treatment. Those people in the news story I posted the link to didn't have insurance but guess what... They also still got treatment. Seriously now, the fear mongering about this issue amazes me...
they were insured... and they make more than our family .... that's my whole FUCKING point
would illegal--er sorry, "undocumented workers" be able to access this health care? they dont feed into the system at all. they are a drain. if they arent aloud, then where is the compassion, if they are, then the system will collapse under the weight of not enough people paying in and too many taking out. where is the compassion in THAT?
I am asking you to understand the function of a society.
im also asking you to understand a function of society. ... or lack there of: the people will not work endlessly for the benefit of the masses.
its already been proven that these systems are a drain. medicade, medicare, welfare... they are about 60% of our tax dollars. we still have poor, sick, and dying people. those programs didnt solve anything. they just took away more from the individuals. oh ... and they need more and more money every year. they arent helping. they are actually hurting.
"Are you saying rich people with poor health deserve to live, while poor people (although, frankly, these people aren't poor) with poor health deserve to die?"
That is what I was getting at right there! How would universal health care have saved that girls life? They were not insured, but they still got treatment. Those people in the news story I posted the link to didn't have insurance but guess what... They also still got treatment. Seriously now, the fear mongering about this issue amazes me...
they were insured... and they make more than our family .... that's my whole FUCKING point
It still doesn't prove how that would have saved anyones life. Poor people with poor health can get treatment and are not refused services.
"Are you saying rich people with poor health deserve to live, while poor people (although, frankly, these people aren't poor) with poor health deserve to die?"
This was the line I had a problem with. You said yourself that it wouldn't have changed anything if she had received Universal Healthcare, so that argument is what bothers me. It is a false statement. They still received treatment.
"Are you saying rich people with poor health deserve to live, while poor people (although, frankly, these people aren't poor) with poor health deserve to die?"
That is what I was getting at right there! How would universal health care have saved that girls life? They were not insured, but they still got treatment. Those people in the news story I posted the link to didn't have insurance but guess what... They also still got treatment. Seriously now, the fear mongering about this issue amazes me...
they were insured... and they make more than our family .... that's my whole FUCKING point
It still doesn't prove how that would have saved anyones life. Poor people with poor health can get treatment and are not refused services.
"Are you saying rich people with poor health deserve to live, while poor people (although, frankly, these people aren't poor) with poor health deserve to die?"
This was the line I had a problem with. You said yourself that it wouldn't have changed anything if she had received Universal Healthcare, so that argument is what bothers me. It is a false statement. They still received treatment.
if you care so much about the debt of this family then do something.
better yet... I WILL DO SOMETHING. seriously. i will starting now. but duty, i need your help.
BRB
ok back... I am looking to hold a cigar event in ohio and all profits will go to that family. if you are on board with this idea please feel free to PM me with thoughts, Ideas, resources. We are a great group of guys. lets show how great we can be.
Comments
I figured this would be a good thing to post on the first day of the SCHIP tax starting...
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/03/31/cities-states-plan-strange-new-taxes-pretty/
I guess they want less death...
this tax has effected me personally lately. its more of a hassle than you can even imagine.
Get ready to see a LOT more of this in the future if the whole Universal Health Care thing happens. And we are going to be the ones footing the bill for it all!
First we bailed out the banks and the government is taking control of them, then the auto industry, next health care... You know things are getting out of hand when the President of FRANCE calls our Presidents policies too socialist!!!
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/elections/2009/04/02/myth-percent-guns-mexico-fraction-number-claimed/
Our healthcare industry could be fixed by the private sector if government would just get the hell out of the way.
taxing me... i mean, taking money by force from me to pay for someone else's goods and services is not what this country is all about. yes that does suck that the little girl died. that sucks bad. this is a prime example for charity. and dont tell me that people wont give. I have helped many kids in very similar situations by working for and raising money for St Jude. My wife and I take that to heart.
if you want to donate, i will gladly accept PMs to work it out.
If private insurance worked the way it is advertised by the opponents of public health care, this family would not have been saddled with that debt. The whole point of insurance is to cover exceptions/crises. However, the caps on a maximum annual benefit effectively place a limit on the value of a person's life. Once that threshold has been met, in the eyes of the insurer, that person is no longer worth preserving. I should never have jumped in here. It is too emotionally draining. The disgusting lack of basic respect for human welfare that runs rampant on this board is too much for me. I'm out.
That is what I was getting at right there! How would universal health care have saved that girls life? They were not insured, but they still got treatment. Those people in the news story I posted the link to didn't have insurance but guess what... They also still got treatment. Seriously now, the fear mongering about this issue amazes me...
I do not disagree with physicians NOT turning people away, regardless if they can pay or not. I disagree with government telling me my money has to pay for their treatment. Nothing in life is free, and that includes these people in the news story. I donate to causes in which I believe, always have, always will. I would not have a problem making a generous donation to child healthcare or other specific types, but I do not want to pay these (drug addict) individuals. Would you be ok with paying for the healthcare of those who lack the gumption to care for themselves, or who are too unaccountable? People who do not have a problem with these individuals taking tax payer money shouldn't have a problem donating to their medical bills. Private donations and fund raisers help thousands of other institutions so perhaps this is the way to go.
There is a couple that my wife and I know. They have a one-year old and a bun in the oven. They plan on getting married but are not going to do so until both children are get a little older because THEY (THE MOTHER) GET MORE MONEY FROM TAX PAYERS TO PAY THE BILLS WHILE SHE IS A SINGLE MOM. That's fucking bullshit.
I feel the same way about these drug addicts (and others who cannot grasp accountability) as I do with current dilemma with the Autos and Banks. They got themselves into this mess, they need to be accountable for their actions and take care of it themselves. My loved ones and I didn't bust our asses our entire lives to get ourselves out of an impoverished background for other limp dicks to unjustifiably/immorally/unconstitutionally/unethically take money from our pockets. Not. My. Problem.
...but he could afford it if he wanted to. where is the compassion in THAT?
Do we still really want to allow physicians to decide which drugs to prescribe without first getting permission from the "national health care coordinator"?
Are Americans willing to trust the government with all of their health care requirements? Should we rely on the government to make medical decisions and place our health entirely in the hands of politicians? Should we expect the government to place our needs ahead of powerful hospital groups or public employee unions? Surely we can rely on the government to insure that there are enough medical facilities in our own communities rather than in, say, the district of a powerful committee chairman? Can we expect the Federal Health Board to establish priorities based on the public interest and not their own agendas? Will some diseases become more politically correct than others?
Based on the currently unfunded but rapidly increasing costs of Medicare and Medicaid, shouldn't we trust the government to reduce all medical costs when it takes them over and none of us have anywhere else to go?
I just dont think social health care will work. here is why:
Consider the contrasting case of the computer industry, which is much freer than the healthcare industry. When the newest, most souped-up, most software-laden computer with the most comprehensive service contract first comes out, it might cost $20,000 or more. Only wealthy Americans choose to buy, or can afford to buy, such an expensive model. Most Americans settle for a model and service contract that costs maybe $1,000 or less. But a couple of years later, after manufacturers have improved their manufacturing ability and brought their costs down, they can sell the old souped-up model for $1,000; and then the average man can enjoy what only the wealthiest could afford a couple of years earlier. Meanwhile, the wealthy can now buy an even more amazing new computer for $20,000.
This has been the pattern of all technological progress in all industries throughout the Industrial Revolution. A poor immigrant today making less than minimum wage off the books can afford to pay for a life-saving antibiotic that the richest of the rich could not obtain a few generations ago.
But suppose the government declares that owning a computer is a right, and so every American has the right to a quality computer, the best computer available. Then progress becomes an enemy of the state. Every new, $20,000 computer has to be provided to everyone. And so, instead of the average computer cost per person being around $1,000, the average cost is $20,000.
The government's only recourse is to outlaw progress.
Moreover, some people who had no computer before are now entitled to one. And they need more service, because they keep spilling booze on it. And those who had two computers must do with only one, with less service. And soon the computer models become more stripped down, because that’s the only way to pay for an equal computer for all.
Freedom is and always will be a matter of survival. If this is news to anyone, they should take a look at countries whose farms are owned by the state.
I dont respect life?!?!?
what about the lack of respect for the things that I worked hard for? MY life? who is respecting ME? you arent. you want to take from me things that i have worked hard for and sacrificed for. that is not respect. that is immoral.
you are stepping all over the rights of the individual because it feels good to help out. If it feels good to help out then do it. but dont FORCE everyone else to do things that they would not normally do.
like I said before, I give to charity already. St. Jude, Big brothers and big sisters, and i have been known to give up my time to go rehab old houses for low income housing. If anyone wants to donate, please PM me and i will make it happen.
...but i will never force you to donate. ill just be happy if you do.
im not saying we dont need some sort of reform im just saying we shouldnt make it a total social system.
the people will not work endlessly for the benefit of the masses.
its already been proven that these systems are a drain. medicade, medicare, welfare... they are about 60% of our tax dollars. we still have poor, sick, and dying people. those programs didnt solve anything. they just took away more from the individuals.
oh ... and they need more and more money every year. they arent helping. they are actually hurting.
why dont YOU send them a few hundred bucks...
"Are you saying rich people with poor health deserve to live, while poor people (although, frankly, these people aren't poor) with poor health deserve to die?"
This was the line I had a problem with. You said yourself that it wouldn't have changed anything if she had received Universal Healthcare, so that argument is what bothers me. It is a false statement. They still received treatment.
better yet... I WILL DO SOMETHING. seriously. i will
starting now. but duty, i need your help.
BRB
ok back...
I am looking to hold a cigar event in ohio and all profits will go to that family. if you are on board with this idea please feel free to PM me with thoughts, Ideas, resources. We are a great group of guys. lets show how great we can be.
Kuzipaluza '09 ... This time it means something....